James Silva created The Dishwasher, the XNA game that won Microsoft’s inaugural Dream-Build-Play contest to become a full-fledged XBLA game. Silva’s also been busy putting some of his older games onto the Community Games channel. As part of the background to E202’s Creation Myths article, an in-depth look at the state of play on XBCG that we'll be posting here site on Monday, we asked him about working with Microsoft and switching between Community Games and XBLA.

Have you been busy since The Dishwasher launched?
Yeah, uh… I haven’t managed to get any work done at all.

Get much sleep?
Yeah. Well, I get up at noon so…

After Dream-Build-Play, Microsoft pretty much decided to make you famous as a figurehead for their initiative. How did that feel?
It’s quite weird. I don’t really know! Originally going into the whole contest I had this build of The Dishwasher, I’ve still got it somewhere, and it’s really bad. If you got in the top 20 you got a free 360, and I thought maybe I might win that. That was the height of my aspiration. I figured some by-the-numbers 3D glossy good looking game would win the contest.

How’d you first get into XNA? Did you have a coding background, or start from scratch?
No, I’d done stuff before. If I hadn’t, I don’t think it would’ve worked! I’d done Visual Basic, which I’m kind of embarrassed to talk about, and I was also a computer science student. It’s weird, I learned all the stuff I’d do with programming on my own because computer science was way too math-y and stuff. Then when XNA came about, well I’d always wanted to make console games, because PC gaming for me, it was one thing, but I really wanted that thing of sitting someone down on a couch, giving them a controller and saying “try this out”. So the first thing I did with XNA was a console thing really, a kind of Super Smash Bros. game that’s out on the community channel now [Zombie Smashers ZX4: Guitarpocalypse] and I just thought it was so cool to be able to develop on a console and have your friends playing it in the living room. I had this one friend from around Buffalo, he was a really great gamer, and he was able to come into it and just mess everyone else up, you know [laughs].
 
What did winning Dream-Build-Play mean in practical terms?
Basically it was just a kind of contract relationship. I’m still independent, I just submit builds to them.

They must give you QA assistance, though?
Oh yeah, it’s kind of funny because there’s this one guy who made The Dishwasher but if you go into the credits the list is huge. Not compared to Halo 3 or something, of course. There was one guy I worked mostly with, then there was VMC Gamelabs, I think that’s where there’s a bunch of kids with the best job in the world, playing videogames all day, and then… uh localisation, a big marketing push, a lot of PR, there’s a PR person that handles review code and stuff. There was another PR person who was kind of XNA and now that I’m Xbox Live Arcade we don’t speak to each other as much, she kind of misses me. For every XNA thing she’s there.

You have two games on the community channel at the minute…
Yeah, that’s right – neither of them are particularly great [laughs] It was kind of a thing where… I’d be working on The Dishwasher, I’d be fixing bugs, I’d think “yeah, that’s good, here’s my build.” Then Microsoft would keep it for two weeks and send it back to me and say “no way are you done, here are more bugs.” But during those two weeks I had nothing to do, so when Community Games launched, and I had Guitarpocalypse which was the first game I built with XNA, why not throw it up there? At the very least my one buddy from Buffalo doesn’t have to be in my apartment to play it, and then 1800 people bought it. And that was something I just put together, and that’s about six months rent for me.

And what do you think of the reaction to the first sales figures, in the context of the initial negativity over at the official forums?
Yeah, that’s… At first I’ve been telling everyone just that I was happy and I’m not going to complain. But the one thing I’ve been realising and someone had to say it is that these people who’ve made games that didn’t make them a million dollars, they’ve still done way better than they would have had they just released it on PC and did all their own marketing, their own PR. The fact is if you put it on there you’re reaching such a huge audience already when you go in the new arrivals queue… I’m not sure what the actual figures are, but a tonne of people must be seeing it, whereas on PC you’ve got to do a lot of legwork for that exposure. If someone’s so disappointed with their community games performance then let them release it online and see what it does. I mean Steam’s a good platform but they don’t let just anyone on there.

Do you play many Community Games yourself?
I’ve got the Creator’s Club thing, so when I do play them they’re the ones in the review queue. I’m kinda cheap like that [laughs].

What do you think of the quality of games currently on the service?
To me it’s about the developers. I just love the fact you can make a game and distribute it like that. As for the quality thing for the gamers, well it’s not like anyone’s forcing them to buy bad games. The opportunity for developers is just awesome, a lot of people are saying that a ratings system might help out – but I’m not sure popularity is such a good indicator of how good a title is. 

What do you think of a ratings system?
I don’t know, I mean I’d be curious to see what people would give apps and stuff because a lot of people think those things are just stupid.

People do buy them, though, so presumably they’re happy with what they’re getting.
Yeah, they’re on the top ten trials for months, they must make a lot of money.

Do you think there’s a sense in which developers are using XBCG as a proving ground: making a generic shooter or Pong clone just to see how to make that type of game?
That could well be. And I think that’s great for developers. Gamers looking for a great game, it’s not great for them. XNA is mainly about what it can provide for developers – maybe gamers should try out that side of it, because the opportunities it provides are huge. I don’t think it could hurt to highlight the better games, but the important thing is just keeping that community focus where it is – it’s just a great thing for developers. Because your first game’s going to be bad. My first half-a-dozen games were bad!

Are you going to resurrect any more of your older games for Community Games? What about Survival Crisis Z?
Well if you have a look on YouTube I’ve started a remake of it. Again, I’m running into that problem where I want to change the model of it but I don’t know how. That’s something I haven’t worked on since summer too. It’s funny though, that game was such a mess for so long, I had no idea what to do with it, and then everyone ended up liking it. I liked the way it turned out! I’ve actually lost the latest source code for it though: people had been asking me to implement multiplayer for years so I did it… but I lost it. I copied over it with something else.

Do you have a lot of half-finished projects lying around?
Oh yeah. I mean, just getting The Dishwasher done was a haul, and now I got to get to work on the next thing. XBLA is kind of like my job now, so I’ve got to look forward to the next game. But I want to finish up a four player street brawling game as well… 

So you’re sticking with XNA for the foreseeable future?
Oh yeah, definitely. That’s kind of… Microsoft’s wonderful but they do have this habit of using their own technologies and XNA is no exception. It’s C# based and it’s got little nuances and quirks, and I love working with it, it’s so easy, and I just can’t imagine working with something else like C++. I’m awful with C++. That’s a pretty big barrier right there. I’m really comfortable with XNA and the opportunities it provides for 2D gaming, it’s just so easy to put stuff together. I think it’s a great setup.

Also in this series of interviews:
Scott Austin, Microsoft's director of digitally distributed games on Community Games' first six months.
Julian Kantor, creator of Groov, a twin stick music shooter Community Game.