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Forging Ahead with Xbox Live

Kris Graft's picture

By Kris Graft

December 11, 2008

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"We didn't create avatars so we could sell people clothes."

After revealing a boost in online activity following the launch of the "New Xbox Experience," Microsoft director of product management for Xbox 360 and Xbox Live Aaron Greenberg offered new insight on Avatars, Xbox 360 game downloads and competition from Wii and PlayStation Home.

Below are highlights from a Thursday phone interview with Greenberg.

People want avatar items based off of third-party properties, virtual Street Fighter clothing for example, stuff like that. Do third parties have access to dev kits that will let them put their stuff on the Marketplace for avatars?

Yeah, absolutely. Our avatars are just now completed. So we've just handed off all the code to developers so they can not only integrate avatars into their games, but they can also have things like unlockable content, special outfits and things like that, so game assets can be integrated into avatars.

As gamers, we definitely want to integrate our favorite game characters. Sports fans want to represent their favorite teams. I think that's the kind of stuff you should expect this coming year. Now that avatars are done and in the hands of developers, they'll be able to integrate them into their games.

How can we anticipate pricing on avatar items?

Our vision for avatars is really an extension of your identity. I think it's worked really well. We didn't create avatars so we could sell people clothes. Who knows what will happen in the future, but for now, all of the gear, all of the clothing is free. And if developers have unlockable content in games, you're not going to be charged for that.

When will we see full Xbox 360 large game downloads on Marketplace?

None of us will deny that digital distribution is the future. How fast that happens, who knows? We're definitely paying attention to it. It's something I think we've experimented with, and we continue to be surprised by the appetite for digital distribution and the rate that it's growing. It continues to be well ahead of what we expect.

With PS3 offering full game downloads, it seems like something that Microsoft cannot ignore.

It's something we're paying attention to. We don't have anything specific to announce today, but it's something we're watching for sure.

In an interview you did with Kotaku, you said that Wii owners will want to upgrade to Xbox 360. We've heard you say that before, but is there any hard evidence that this is actually happening? If that were true, we should be seeing around, say, 700,000 Wii consumers per month "graduating" to an Xbox 360 any time now, right?

[Laughs] Well, we didn't say they'd all graduate the same day or overnight. The point is that we as an industry need to recognize that there are different consumers with different tastes who want different types of experiences. What Xbox 360 offers is dramatically different than what Nintendo offers with the Wii. Wii has had a lot of success. Xbox has had a lot of success. I think what we see are two companies doing very well in the marketplace, and I think there's sort of been this perception that there's only room for one platform to thrive. In many ways, Wii and Xbox 360 have been complementary. We've seen people buy Wii for younger kids in the house and Xbox 360 for games and entertainment. I think that's a good thing.

You got some gamers riled up when you told Kotaku, "What Home to me feels like is Second Life for hardcore gamers. It doesn’t feel like it broadens the experience and invites people in. When they unveiled it, it seemed innovative. I think what's happened is now here we are a couple of years later and we're beyond that. It feels like 2005 tech in 2008. I'm not sure that’s what people want." Is that being too harsh? This is a major feature upgrade to the console. It's still in beta, it will add more features. Isn't it too early to just discount this as "old tech"?

Yeah, yeah. I think it's fair to address that. What always happens with the Internet is people isolate specific comments and things that you say, but you don't always hear the full story. I do believe what I said is actually the case, and I do stand by that. But at the same time, we recognize Sony as a very formidable competitor, and the fact that they're making investments in online validates what we have believed for years. When we launched the original Xbox years ago, we bet on the fact that you could actually create an online community in the living room.

On the comments about Home, if you look back at when this was actually announced, it was when things like Second Life and virtual worlds were still having some popularity. I think what's happened since then is people have "been there, done that." They've realized virtual worlds are fun for a short time, but it's hard to keep those worlds fresh and exciting and keeping people coming back and keeping them safe for all ages. We've seen what's happened to Second Life and what's happened with Google's Lively project, which is now closing.

It's tough. Online innovation happens at a much faster pace than hardware innovation. The challenge on us as companies is to stay on the cutting edge. As I look at the Home experience, it feels like a 2005 experience in 2008. It feels like Second Life for hardcore gamers. And I'm not sure that's something that will help Sony sell consoles or bring in a broader audience.

That said, we don't underestimate Sony, and what they bring to the market.

toadwarrior's picture

This isn't his worst interview but I would just like to say Aaraon is a bit of a mong and we could do without him.

alexkidd's picture

I own a 360 and Wii. I have never had any particular console allegiance. As a young working adult with a working partner and no kids, I have a fair bit of disposable income, and could afford a PS3, but I've never bothered.

And why? The answer is far simpler than all the arguments I see here - The 360 was out first, was cheaper, and the only exclusives I'm missing out on that remotely bother me are MGS4 and LBP.

I have a Wii because it's different - but what's truly different about the PS3 to your average consumer? Blu-Ray..? "What's that?" Says Dad. The online is free..? "Who Cares?" says hardcore gamer. Home? "I'm not a 12 year old girl!" says me.

It's simple - 360 isn't better.. just cheaper (initially) and I got it first. Big whoop.

NickgamertagO1's picture

Yeah, I totally agree with you there. If the PS3 came out first, I may own one and not a 360 (at least if Halo didn't exist). Although I can't help but feel that the last Halo was a bit of a let down though. Or maybe there's just so many good games on the xbox platform now that it just doesn't shine as much as Halo 1 and 2 did for the xbox 1.

Tony-Wicks's picture

"It feels like 2005 tech in 2008. "

Unlike 'You're in the Movies' that seems like 2003 tech (Eye Toy Play) in 2008?

Axel16's picture

You're WRONG Steeldog, Aaron Greenberg is a pathetic person!!
Well best way is to IGNORGE such nonesess!!
I'm a real HARDCORE GAMER and I have a high-end PC and my Wii!!
My PC with far better graphics than Xbox360/Ps3!!
But I prefer play games on my Wii over my PC!!
Why?... Becose the amazing Wiimote, is the best interface to play games!!
The Wii is NOT ONLY FOR KIDS IS FOR EVERYONE, for casual and hardcore gamers!!
Can You understand?
There's a lot games for everyone!!
If you're frustrated by the shoveware IS YOUR PROBLEM!!
Where can you find high quality Wii games? There's a lot of Third-party high quality games, not only for (Nintendo) first-party. If you like casual games you get it, if you like hardcore games you get it!! (If question to make a good search and you find them)
The perfect formula, GORGEOUS GRAPHICS AND GOOD GAMEPLAY. The Wii games will be improved, today we see some Wii games with graphics as close the Xbox360/Ps3 and much better gameplay. The Wiimote is the best for Shooters games (FPS), Sport games, Action games, RPG games....etc. The Wiimote has a lot of potential!!
I have 45 Wii games for harcore gamers all from third-parties, I'm playing in my Wii almost 6 hours everyday and I ENJOY THEM!!
I hope when the third-parties finally end the "LEARN CURVE" and capitalize the Wii (mastering the components) we see even better games, THE BEST IS COMING!!
And for Aaron: "I NEVER, EVER CHANGE MY Wii FOR THE SUCKY XBOX360"
Nintendo slowy change the market and finally nintendo will surpass the Xbox360 (8:1) tie ratio obtaining the ABSOLUTE VICTORY (hardware and software).

SteelDog's picture

You couldn't be more wrong Axel. Your not a hardcore gamer if you prefer the Wii just because of the remote. Hardcore gamers like hardcore games. I am sorry but I too have a high end PC, Wii and 360. As stated before, the problem with the Wii is that the majority of the good games come from Nintendo. 3rd party games have been junk. Nintendo has admiited that 3rd party's don't get it. Nintendo's words not mine. The Wii remote was a great concept but nobody but Nintendo has a firm grasp. Majority of Nintendo's games are curbed towards the kiddy family crowd. Sorry but that is not hardcore gamer. I think it's you that doesn't understand what a hardcore gamer is. You obviously have a passion for the Wii. As stated before I own the Wii and like it. However, your claim that Wii's graphics even come close to the 360, PS3 or PC or laughable. The system never will approach the visuals of those systems. It's not even a competition. Don't even get me started on Wii sports games (like football and basketball). The word sucks doesn't even begin to describe those games when compared to other platforms. Sorry but the only reason Nintendo is #1 is because of the mass market family crowd. Nintendo was smarter then the rest at targeting that crowd. Nintendo is not a hardcore gaming machine and never will be. That's OK though. That's why I own more then one system so I can get the best of both worlds.

SteelDog's picture

Wow. I think he really nailed it. We bought both the Wii and 360 and I have to say what he says is true for us. The kids play the Wii mostly and the "older kids" play the 360. The Wii is not a hardcore gaming machine. Anybody that says otherwise isn't a hardcore gamer. The 360 has much better games then the Wii and the only Wii games so far that seemed to hit it out of the park our Nintendo 1st party titles. Nintendo has admitted as much. As much as Nintendo has tried to shed the "kiddie" image...the Wii is just that. A mass market kiddie friendly family gaming machine. There is nothing wrong with that at all. We enjoy the Wii. The 360 and Playstation 3 audience is completely different.

gyak's picture

"The 360 and Playstation 3 audience is completely different."
Not sure what you're talking about.

Wait a sec. Sometimes I feel that too when I hop in Live on a friend's 360. Maybe I'm just getting old.

SteelDog's picture

Correction. I mean the 360 & PS3 Audience is completely different from the Wii.

grognard66's picture

@Davidovith - yeah, there really are no games on the Wii. Just kidding.

It is true though that the Wii is certainly targeted to a different demographic than either 360 or PS3 though - Nintendo says so itself. It is also true that the Wii library is extremely thin for traditional, hard core gamers. Even Nintendo die-hard fans feel ignored this generation by Nintendo's first party releases.

@gyak - Successful executives often talk in "battle" language and neither Sony nor Nintendo are immune to this. Indeed, many Japanese businessmen enthusiastically adopted the phrase (and culture of) "business is war" after WWII and some even spoke of viewing business against American companies as a continuation of the war on a different battleground.

None of these executives (American, Japanese, or otherwise) are the warm and cuddly type who just want everyone to get along. They're competitive and egotistical - that's part of the reason they're executives of the worlds largest companies.

gyak's picture

I know, I know. Jush hate it when they overdo it. It's so not professional (whatever 'war' is going on these days among consoles), and in a way it's embarrassing to me as a customer.

Davidovitch's picture

We've seen people buy Wii for younger kids in the house and Xbox 360 for games and entertainment. I think that's a good thing.

This kind of condescending talk really ticks me off. There are no games on the Wii?
But I suppose Microsoft is just saying such things out of jealousy (of Nintendo's ridiculous sales figures).

Or am I being blind and is the Wii really just a kid's platform? Are there any figures about the average age of console owners or users?

chickenfriedsteak's picture

Actually I can back that statement up, both anecdotally and personally. I bought a Wii for my kids (7, 5 and 3) last Christmas and they loved it - for about 2 months. Then they saw me playing my 360 and were far more entranced. Now it is there preferred platform and the Wii only gets dusted off when a new friend comes over who may not have seen it yet. Most 3rd party games have terrible "waggle" controls with only Nintendo titles worth playing. The kids are far more at home using a controller rather than trying to decipher which jiggle makes the Ninja Turtle attack etc. And it seems that way for other families we know as well.

The Wii sells well but tends to sit dormant for a very, very long time soon after purchase.

(Having the ability to download demos on the 360 for all the kids games is also a great boon because we really get to work out what they will like before purchasing.)

gyak's picture

Yea. Having said that I like how Greenberg doesn't use the usual MS 'battle' language and thinks about the competition as formidable (he's not Don Mattrick luckily). Oh and like the new keyword: it's the "old experience" (2 words, actually) as opposed to the new xbox experience..

Wall_E's picture

The best online experience one can get is still on PC. As for XBL, the service should be free.

busboy33's picture

It would certainly be nice to get it free, but "should" might be a bit too strong. MS is-and-has-been pouring some serious capital into XBL, and frankly I'd rather pay a straight yearly fee and get a near flawless network infrastructure (the debacle last year was the first time I can remember Live going down for more than a few hours, and I've been on the service since day one with the original Xbox) and hassle free support than get it free but either have to get bombarded with ads, nickel-and-dimed for things I need, or have them foist the costs of the service off onto some other entity.
Free is certainly better than fee . . . but I do think you get what you pay for.