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Datel "Disappointed" By Xbox 360 Memory Unit Lock Out
Third party peripheral firm Datel has said that Microsoft’s decision to lock out unlicensed memory cards on the Xbox 360 prevents customers from exercising their freedom of choice.
"When preview programme members start receiving the Xbox 360 system update next week, one of the changes is that unauthorised memory units will no longer work with the Xbox 360," Xbox Live's director of programming, Larry Hryb, said earlier this week. "If you continue to use an unauthorised memory unit after the update, you will not be able to access your stored profile or saved games."
Datel, which make a range of Max Memory storage units for Xbox 360, isn’t happy with Microsoft’s decision.
"If the Major Nelson blog is to be taken at face value then we're disappointed to see that Microsoft are taking these steps to prevent customers from exercising their freedom of choice,” a company spokesperson told CVG. “Everyone is looking for ways to make their cash go further at the moment and we believe that Max Memory offers a good value, high capacity, alternative to the official memory unit."
An official Xbox 360 Memory Unit (512MB) retails for £29.99 at Game, while a Datel Max Memory 2GB Memory Unit for Xbox 360 can be bought online for £7 less.
The upcoming Xbox 360 system update will introduce Facebook, Twitter and Last.fm functionality to Xbox Live, among other features.
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Any moment now I'm expecting Dreamhunk to waltz in here and proclaim his long awaited arrival and declare the death of console gaming, that this is a start, and back it up with many links.
I've had a Xbox for years now, and I've been fairly happy with the games and service. But all this money spinning bullshit that's going on at the min (eposodic games, the prospect of raising xbox live gold) is making me want to trade in the console for a PS3. Microsoft are an evil company. That's right EVIL! i don't trust them at all. All they seem to want to do is electronically pick up their customers and shake them for every penny they have. And Natal looks shite! I quite like using a control pad thank you! In fact, the very day that the last guardian is released i will be trading my console in! and then i wont have to worry about making a twisted company richer, and from those riches becoming more twisted. PARP.
Yeah I'm certainly getting a PS3 for The Last Guardian alone, and hopefully the PS3 Slim will be cheaper at that point in the future. Don't know what I'd do with my X360 at that point though. Probably keep it to play all other games, lol.
If The Last Guardian is half as good as Shadow of the Colossus I'd be happy. Love the way the games from Team ICO look, the atmosphere they create, and the gameplay mechanics.....etc etc, I could go on for a long time.
The fact The Last Guardian relies on a relationship between you and the creature is genius. It sets out play mechanics to solve puzzels, a method of transport, a friend to build a relationship with, and something the base the story around. Other games developers really should take note...PLEASE.
I don't want to play FPS, dungeon crawlers, RPGs and strategy games forever. There ARE undiscovered genres, or at least new combinations of / new takes on existing genres.
I can see the logic behind this move by Microsoft, but it isn't morally the logical move, especially after the widespread RROD issues experienced by many users.
You'd think Microsoft would be trying to increase their user base in any way possible so more people buy games for their console, multiplying profits across the market, whilst at the same time making a gesture/apology for unreliable units and over-priced peripherals. Not angering people with decisions like this.
"we believe that Max Memory offers a good value, high capacity, alternative to the official memory unit."
Max Memory.....why else do you think Microsoft are locking out your product? There's no point using this argument to save your product!
This is such a bad move.
I wouldn't even know where to begin deconstructing this from an economic perspective. It is a terrible, terrible, terrible idea. The Xbox is in a very tenuous position. It's #1 in hardcore gamers and #2 overall, but if they keep fucking up, and Sony makes a few good moves (Hey, it could happen) the Xbox could quickly and shockingly fall to third place.
Microsoft should be working desperately to open the platform and increase value. Not lock it down, decrease value, and raise price. I mean, who do they think they are? The record companies?
[quote]The upcoming Xbox 360 system update will introduce Facebook, Twitter and Last.fm functionality to Xbox Live, among other features.[/quote]
Yahhhh.... more online profiling.... more data about you they can put into a database.... and go ahead, link this up to your XBLA account now will you...
Go look at this article:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10...
So, we have Facebook integration, we have the XBLA account and they have access to your credit card - now link this all up to Project Natal.
So... let's run down the list here, shall we?
* Knows your credit card details? Check.
* Has information about your private life? Check. (Facebook)
* Has a body-scanning camera that can identify you individually? Check. (Project Natal)
And this is not Big Brother on steroids? If Microsoft would have asked this individually from each and every person running Windows on their computer, they would have objected for sure. But push all this through by way of an 'entertainment device' and bingo - they have accomplished the same endresult.
When Microsoft said they wanted to beat Sony to the living room - they weren't kidding - right down to a TSA-like bodyscanning camera on an Internet-enabled machine ready to track you - all in the name of 'good fun'....
[quote]
Third party peripheral firm Datel has said that Microsoft’s decision to lock out unlicensed memory cards on the Xbox 360 prevents customers from exercising their freedom of choice.
[/quote]
Freedom of choice? That's a bad word to companies like Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft. This is what all the fanboys and platform apologists don't get: these multi-billion dollar companies basically treat their customers as a pimp would his prostitutes - they slap them around, and through reverse psychology get the prostitutes to enjoy their own servitude.
And this is perfectly exemplified by the whole PSPgo fiasco and Microsoft and Nintendo going so far as to ban and shut out people from playing games if they are modified by churning out continuous firmware updates.
Microsoft even had the audacity to burn down a component on the motherboard through a forced firmware update to prevent people from running a exploit that would have allowed them to run homebrew software or Linux. So they even go to the trouble of 'crippling' your hardware just to ensure a hardware exploit from not being used.
I guess quite a few here have learned to love Big Brother. I guess I wll be turned sooner or later, too. I might have to dust off my DVD copy of 1984 to learn how that will play out.
That's incredibly paranoid. Then again, if I lived in a country with camera's recording everything on each street corner maybe I would feel the same way.
While there is no doubt MS' pricing on accessories (particularly storage) is ridiculous, it is only fair to point out that unlicensed third party storage solutions opens up a very dangerous Pandora's Box of exploiting possibilities. Live!'s very premise is that it is a protected, uniform environment where you don't have to worry so much about exploits/hackers, and it is sensible for MS to protect that environment. Remember, Datel made most of its money last gen on cheats systems for each console using memory cards...
That being said, people wouldn't have an issue at all if MS offered their own mass storage memory cards at the same, more reasonable price as Datel.
What's 'incredibly paranoid' about it? It's exactly as I just said. You have a game console that has access to your credit card details - through the full-body scanning camera it knows how you look, and through Facebook integration they can integrate your XBLA account with your Facebook account - datamine it and sell it off to services like Lexis-Nexis. 'Paranoia' doesn't even fit into this - I'm not embellishing anything here or stretching things out of context - just stating what the current XBLA profile consists of, and what it's linked to. If not, I would like to see where it is that I'm overstating things.
It's only 'incredibly paranoid' when you don't 'reason' anything through and take these things at face value - surely 'thinking' is not still discouraged am I right?
Read about the cops crashing one's 30th birthday party because he advertised it on Facebook?
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/17/police_raid_birthday_barbecue_fa...
Trust me, the cops are chronicling everything you put up on Facebook - they don't have anything better to do and they have to somehow reach their quotas - because guess what, there are no Al-Qaeda terrorists to be found anywhere. And guess what? Just like in Soviet Russia, when Joe Stalin orders the cops to 'get him' some burgeoise terrorists and there are none, then you have to somehow 'catch' that which does not exist. So you go looking for suitable substitutes indeed.
That's why I don't have a Facebook account! :)
I think the important thing to remember is that all of this stuff is optional. You don't have to use Facebook. You don't have to give MS or any other company your credit card number. You can buy subscription cards/points using cash at retailers if you'd like. You don't have to use the camera to upload a picture of yourself, etc. It's all common sense. If you don't feel comfortable giving companies this personal information about you simply don't give it to them.
Also, I think you over-estimate the competence of companies (and governments). While it is true that data mining is used extensively, it is done with a broad brush. They could care less about you and don't have nefarious motives - other than to tailor their marketing towards you to better effect.
Their 'marketing' itself is a nefarious motive - to get you to buy more useless crap made in slave-labor states like China - dragging down the local economy.
[quote]
They could care less about you
[/quote]
That's not exactly true - perhaps you have not been keeping up with the news lately. This is the latest report from Oceania's Ministry Of Truth:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1221839/State-spying-cost-200m-y...
[quote]
The £200million-a-year sum will give officials access to details of every internet click made by every citizen - on top of the email and telephone records already available.
It is a 1,700 per cent increase on the cost of the current surveillance regime.
Last night LibDem home affairs spokesman Chris Huhne described the sum as 'eye-watering'.
[/quote]
That means every 'single' citizen/individual - individually - every click made on a website. Any porn site you visit. Any torrent you download. Any 'picture' you upload to Facebook. Any 'mail' you sent. And so on.
That's control. Ouch.
Then you need to include pretty much all cell phone carriers, smart phone makers, etc., for being in on this. And why assume its just Microsoft? Sony, makers of wonderful things like SecuROM and rootkits for music CD's, could make a pretty penny off of things too. They certainly are big enough a company with their fingers in enough pies to get in on something like this. And why bother with middlemen? ISPs, credit card companies and banks have far, far more information on us than Microsoft could hope to gather.
Don't fear big brother. Fear little brother (corporations), as there's less people watching them, they're multinational, and everything is for sale. And if you fear both of them, you might as well get off line and go live in a cave.
Why assume I only disapprove of the way Microsoft is integrating all these 'services' together and I cast a blind eye on the cell phone carriers, smart phone makers?
[quote]Don't fear big brother. Fear little brother (corporations), as there's less people watching them, they're multinational, and everything is for sale.[/quote]
Um, I wouldn't call multinational corporations 'little brother'. If anything, Big Brother 'are' the corporations - as in corporatism, the government is in bed with big business through the hilt. Remember, it was IBM that supplied the punchcard Hollerith machines used in the concentration camps to the Nazis to weed out the Jews, the gypsies and all other undesirables. And a IBM 'sysadmin' had to come by on a monthly basis to devise a few new apps for them. To assume his 'moral conscience' restrained him from doing his job is to presume he didn't like getting paid - it's that simple. The same excuse is trotted out today with exceeding regularity - 'just doing my job'.
So you're right in the sense that we have to 'check' the corporations, but somewhat misguided in the sense that you consider these to be 'little brothers'.
[quote]And if you fear both of them, you might as well get off line and go live in a cave.[/quote]
So this is 'progress'? You're like an open book to the authorities, and the authorities are a closed book to you? Is this the panacea of the 21st century? The people are the total slaves whose lives are irrelevant and have no need for privacy, and yet the crooked politicians are allowed to steal, plunder, rape and pillage and get away with it all?
Really - it's baffling to me what obedience this whole 'entertainment' business has engendered - and that somehow they have convinced the placated public that it's 'cool' to be a schmuck - to the point that when I say I don't like my XBLA account being linked to my Facebook account and my Gmail account and so on - I'm being 'paranoid' or 'I might as well live in a cave'.
The term "big brother" has already been taken, hence, "little brother." I'm not the one who made the term :p
To suggest lambast IBM for their role in concentration camps today is the same of accusing a modern day German of being a Nazi, which just isnt the case in the vast majority.
Im not saying roll over and take it but trying to fight corporations on an internet forum is a total waste of time, the only thing multi-national companies understand is money so vote with your wallet
I don't think it's right to acquit IBM for their role in the formation of the concentration camps and the enabling of its infrastructure ( (if anything, to give them a pass on this all under the banner of 'oh that was 50/60 years ago' smacks of apologism) - as one of its most prominent Presidents, Mr. Thomas Watson, was an ardent Nazi sympathist - and today they're at the very forefront of the 'smart grid' that is currently being rolled out. Not to mention that prior to getting the big 'contract' for putting the Hollerith machines in the concentration camps, IBM started out with providing census data and racial studies - such as the Jamaican-Race Crossing Study. And they still do census data - and through their proxy company Verichip are also championing RFID microchip implants. So whether it's 'tagging' concentration camp victims with IBM Unique Identification numbers or whether it's chipping voluntary idiots with RFID tags, it seems the old fox is up to its old tricks...
[quote]the only thing multi-national companies understand is money so vote with your wallet[/quote]
That's to presume it's still about cash only. In truth, these companies have grown so large and powerful they supplant national governments and can have their own country.
and the corporations are all corporationy
I don't think hat there is any kind of argument that Microsoft can make for this being of benifit to customers, it's purely for their benifit.
Whilst I understand it from their point of view, it's a daft move.
So this is how they are paying for those three year warranties....
Come on they´re just afraid of losing profit.
I bought one of the Datel Max Memory devices last month. Now I´m forced to throw it away. Thanks to MS.
Yeh it's what we have come to expect from MS. I'd love to fit a bigger HDD than the 20 Gb version but last time I checked they were still asking stupid money from them. Sony with the PS3 have definately got my support in this area where you can treat it like a PC in regard to the peripherals and HDDs not that I've used it for any of that just yet but at least I know I have the choice to buy any brands I want.
It's just a dick move by Microsoft. Their peripherals are already embarrassingly overpriced. Microsoft's integrity (for all they have left) just sunk to a new low.
Freedom of choice... This is Microsoft we're talking about!
If it's not branded or licensed officially with MS taking their cut it's not allowed! This has been clear from the beginning. As narrow minded as it is of MS to take this attitude, there nothing you can do about it!
Yeah, this is true. And Microsoft does have companies who are licensed to make 360 peripherals, don't they? So they pretty much have to do something (little surprised they didn't litigate). Also, while this does affect these legit forms of storage, I've been told that pirating for the 360 isn't as hard as MS would like, so this move would also be affecting those with mod'd 360's.
Pirates are the cake. Protecting their profits from non-licensed companies are the icing.
I don't really see this as being much different than when companies tried making games for consoles without a license from the platform holder. And the recent legal actions after companies selling piracy-enabling mods? Yeah... in better economic times it would be one thing. But right now I think companies are fixing "leaks."
Actually, in the world of computing, Microsoft has been one of the most open companies. Anyone can develop anything for Windows, Office, Internet Explorer, etc. In fact, in the history of personal computing, it's that openness, which was revolutionary back in the late 70's and early 80's, that propelled Microsoft to the leading position it holds today.
Contrast this to other companies, including Apple, Sony, Nintendo, Xerox, HP, and Phillips, and where they tried to rule with an iron fist, Microsoft made platforms (primarily software) on which anyone could make anything.
Now, we have Apple showing how an integrated, closed environment can be used to practically print money and every company on Earth, Microsoft included, is salivating at the possibilities.
What Microsoft is doing is shit, plain and simple, but don't forget their history.
Openness with SDK's, applications and operating systems is one thing. But not allowing companies to make memory cards as well as other peripherals is far from open. Xbox 360 is well known for being closed off to all but the lucky few that are licensed to make peripherals for it. Like Fanatec with their wheel for Forza 3 or Madcats for there SFIV sticks and controllers of even Red Octane for the Guitar Hero instruments.
I don't mind paying Microsoft a nominal fee for a half decent online service. But it unfair to be expected to pay over the odds prices for peripherals just because it's got an MS sticker on it.
I don't think anyone will disagree that MIcrosoft's pricing on storage is gouging. But, again, it gets back to licensing. Consoles are inherently closed platforms, and licensing for games, accessories, whatever, is one revenue stream the platform holder is entitled to. They're the ones, after all, who are taking far more risk (to the tunes of billions of dollars), had to put in the R&D, production, etc. Datel, on the other hand, is mad because their "free ride" is being cut short. Their stake in things is pretty minimal.
Nintendo sued Galoob over the Game Genie. Sega sued EA for making unlicensed Genesis games. Nintendo has released a firmware for the Wii that bricks modded systems. Microsoft has banned Xbox's that have been modded. Like it or not, they are exercising their rights as platform holders. Sony might let you use any Memory Stick you want, but that is their patent - they get paid anyhow.
Microsoft is well within their rights doing this. To be honest, they might even have a obligation to do so - darn stockholders and such. Doubly so if doing this blocks people who have found ways to pirate 360 games and are using non-authorized storage.
It's a tricky one isn't it. I see your point on all fronts. I understand that all companies want to protect there interests and from those undesirables that might want to rain on there parade and that is what is so sordid about the whole affair. Maybe I'm being overly sensitive.
Nah, I don't think so. Its just the nature of things, both for companies and for consumers. Many consumers don't care about the how or why, just "can I do what I want?" Sometimes the two get along, sometimes not. I knew one guy who had a massive library of Dreamcast games. All pirated (bastard). People like him aggravate already companies already worried/paranoid about protecting their IP's, and therefore use DRM (for PC's and other media) or insist on platform holders being very pro-active on the matter (consoles, for instance).
To be fair Dreamcast left its software so open that it's no wonder the piracy rates were so high and at least one of the many coffin nails that lead to its eventual demise. Things are changing slow but surely and whilst I understand the need to be protectionist about mod chips and adapters and certainly aggressive in their approach to banning people that are blatantly taking the mickey out for industry through playing pirated games online.
I still failing to see how Microsoft could not have been more reasonable in their approach to dealing the with Datel (and other would-be licensees). They could have said, "Okay, give over a license payment or percentage of overall sales, lose the SD-Card reader, make it fully solid state and then you can put your technology out there". I think personally having a 2gb memory card out there is of great benefit to the community.
I'm not saying Microsoft's gone the best way of doing things! However, by being so closed they're likely:
1. Making more money than if they licensed out memory.
2. Given themselves one less hardware combo headache (I've had 3rd party stuff not work right/well on consoles before).
3. Made a very clear tiering of storage options. The bigger the memory card capacity, the less appealing the harddrives are.
Good points.
It's a shame everything has to be so money oriented..
C'est la vie!
Well, if you can get the government to give a bail-out/massive subsidy to the game companies they can give everything away for free! :)
But seriously, as someone who's got a 401k and an IRA (which likely has Microsoft stock among other big companies), I can certainly understand the pressure they're under to make sure they keep stockholders happy. Especially with so many baby-boomers getting ready to retire. Likewise, notice Microsoft and Sony aren't getting any sort of massive bailouts - that's a good thing. Gotta watch them dollars...
There's always PC gaming. There are a lot more revenue models available out there, including various shades of "free" (and hopefully we'll see them more and more this and next gen).
On one hand they profess to have customer interests at heart whilst trying to squeeze as much cash out of them as they can to satisfy the shareholders, all public companies are guilty of this to some degree. The system is by no means perfect, but is as balanced as it can be and the best we've got for the time being.
I see you point about P.C. I presume you meant the "free" as in freedom to choose. What graphic card sound card or software you install or how you customize the experience to suite your own needs. I'm not sure that consoles will go the modular route and we've already you've already mentioned the option for installing Linux onto the PS3 being excluded with this revision. Maybe the idea is to bring the P.C more into line with the consoles, with a more standardised format.
The great thing about consoles is how they've leveled the playing field and given everyone the opportunity to experience games at the same high fidelity. PC's are much more expensive maintain over a period of years and what tends to happen, software developers aim at the higher end of the spectrum (although this has started to change recently), which is often to the detriment of those who can't always afford high-end systems.
I don't think anyone would argue with you there, but it still smacks of greed due to the massively high prices the official storage solutions (mem card or HHD) cost.
When it comes to storage solutions Microsoft's price per gigabyte is a joke.
It's interesting that Sony strategy is completely different and much less aggressive. PS3 allows you to change most of it peripherals and not reliant on such strict controls which is much better for its users.
I think there's a degree of one-upman-ship involved. They did come out after the 360, after all. Its very aggressive - just differently so. And notice how much Sony has stripped away from the PS3 since its come out! While you can hardly blame them (especially given how much money they were losing early on), the fact is a lot of things were cut out in the name of saving money. The new Slims can't even do Linux anymore!
Yeah I've noticed that, but I never thought it was too aggressive or to the detriment of the user base. I thought Sony did us a favor by bringing out a more affordable version even if it was light on USB slots and other card reading devices. Gigabit LAN was the other things wasn't it? I don't think it was necessarily bad thing to want to optimize the quick features to make this more accessible for everybody and those wanting a PS3
Depends on the feature being cut. The removal of PS2 BC is not exactly a popular move. Sony might like it for cost reduction, but if you've got a good PS2 collection (or just a few, good favorites) it stinks. There are a lot of PS2 games that will not be getting sequels in all likelihood, or might not get redone for PSN. LIkewise, publishers might well use this as an opportunity to resell you games you would've used PS2 BC for, making themselves (and Sony) more money in the process. The removal of Linux is certainly a blow to some, and didn't really save them any money. If anything, I wish Sony would get serious about Linux - they could liberate themselves (and their computers) from the "Windows Tax," and maybe even fulfill their dream of competing with Apple.
Worth mentioning - they make money on the PS2, so they'd likely rather you buy another PS2 to play PS2 games than have PS2 BC in the PS3 at this point. Some folks who trade in or sell their old systems might not be aware of this. LIkewise, systems eventually die, so you'd have to buy another PS2 to replace what the PS3 ought to be accomodating. On top of that? Man, its just one more thing cluttering up the house! If you're short on space or wiring inputs, that's a hassle.
I can see why Sony canned backwards compatibility for the time being, with PS2 still selling well in various territories, wouldn't the fact that having two machine doing one job constitute a little conflict or interests? It has only been recently here in Europe that we've started hearing rumors about possible inclusion of PS2 emulation now that the PS2 life cycle is coming to an end.
With the original 1st gen. 60gb PS3 models with the Emotion chips onboard. Didn't they have a propensity to overheat? Thus forcing Sony to rethink there method of carrying PS2 emulation rather that the chipset itself.
Obviously I can't speak for everyone, but personally I like console clutter, thats not say everyone does. I have all my machines on display and rigged up like a shrine to my gaming history the PS2 is still there too, making noise and asserting its position. I still play Ico, Shadow of the Colossus and Final Fantasy XII from time to time (Sunday night is Retro gaming night here!). Having said that a fair bit of my gaming time has been taken up with PS3 and Xbox 360 over the recent months. Though I try and make time for my older systems too.
I know we all want the facility and that it was an original selling feature and some of us may have felt cheated. I'm sure there will come a point when everything will be accessible from the PSN, although like PSone classics how much take up will there be? Here in UK at least, we don't have a great many top rated PSone games on the network and it seems as though there hasn't been much thought put into the titles that are there. So if PS2 emulation is to be switched on, like you say it'll be solely reliant on games in your existing collections.
The PS2 will eventually be discontinued. The PS3 might take the center stage in someone's house, relegating the PS2 to the kids, storage, being sold, etc. Whatever.
PS1 games are still supported on the PS3, so they're not a concern. If you've got old PS1 games (like many of my friends who play RPGs), you're fine. If you've got PS2 games and a non-PS2 BC model of the PS3, then you're in a not as good position. Do you hope they reenable PS2 BC through software? Do you buy another PS2 "just in case" ($100 USD)? Do you hope game companies decide they can make some more money off of you, forcing you to rebuy a game you already own? Stuff like that.
For better or worse Sony set the expectation, and now trimmed it out. It would've been better for them not to ship with PS2 BC at all instead of removing it later on, PR-wise.
Check out this leaked report which amongst other things said that backward compatibility through emulation could be making an appearance. When is a big question!
I think all of us Sony owners were a little disppointed at the time. Exclusion of backwards compatibility and various other features that were lost with the introduction of the 40gb models.
The all singing and dancing 60gb model was a little out of my league. May be in the future and now Sony have the manufacturing process running cost effectively that we'll see the inclusion of all the extra stuff that was promised from the start.
I've seen that. Of course, it sounds a little too good to be true, yet is short on details. All that work has to have a revenue model to justify it, so I'm thinking we're going to see attempts to double-dip rather than giving everyone free PS2 emulation. I'd love to be wrong, of course.
I blame the trauma from the original Xbox losing billions of dollars. Everything about the way the 360 is set up screams it (even if you ignore quality issues like RRoD and disc bumpers). If you look at the PS2 and even the PS3, you can see design decisions that are pretty much the result of ruling the previous generation, making money hand-over-fist, expecting the competition to roll over and die. And you can easily see Nintendo's desire not to get in the middle of a spending war with two significantly larger companies.
Greed is the only reason to make a console. The reason the 360's storage is priced the way it is would be the desire to make sure they've got as many ways to make money as possible, and to make sure that retailers can make as much money off of us as possible, too (making the 360 more attractive to them). Everywhere I've checked but Amazon sells the 360 wireless pads for $50+ (they sell it for under $30). Its not Microsoft's greed alone. VERY likely retailers enjoy a big, fat profit off each bit of storage they sell.