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Moore: The Hard Drive Killed Xbox

Tom Ivan's picture

By Tom Ivan

September 17, 2008

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“The hard drive in every Xbox was killing us, and there was no way to bring the price down”

In the third part of The Guardian’s interview with Peter Moore, the EA Sports boss has said that having a hard drive in every Xbox cost Microsoft too much money, leading to the console’s early demise and the swift launch of its successor, Xbox 360.

“… Not having a hard drive in every Xbox 360 was a hard decision, but we wanted to get price under control," the former Xbox and Sega US head commented. “The hard drive in every Xbox killed us; we were still selling it at $199 and the hard drive was like $70. That's why we prematurely left the original Xbox, because the more we were selling – there was still great demand – it was killing us, and there was no way to bring the price down.

“So in the end we determined at around the 25 million unit mark that we just needed to slow this thing down and just not sell any more, and move to the 360 as quickly as we possibly could. And to this day people still believe we left the Xbox too early but it was purely for financial purposes.”

Elsewhere in the interview Moore said that ex-employer Microsoft has always felt that software is the biggest driver of hardware sales, citing the success of the Halo franchise and Gears of War, while at the same time giving a damning verdict on Microsoft-owned developer Rare’s relevance in today’s marketplace.

“… I spent a lot of time in the Midlands with Rare, trying to work on stuff that would give us a little bit more balance… So we used Viva Pinata as a broader play into the more casual market to attract younger consumers, female consumers and to take a little bit of the edge off the box.

“I thought ultimately it would be very successful… but we were trying all kinds of classic Rare stuff and unfortunately I think the industry had past Rare by – it's a strong statement but what they were good at, new consumers didn't care about anymore, and it was tough because they were trying very hard… Great people. But their skillsets were from a different time and a different place and were not applicable in today's market.”

Earlier this week Moore told The Guardian how he made the call that brought the curtain down on the Dreamcast and with it Sega’s participation in the hardware market, and spoke of Microsoft’s desire to acquire Nintendo when he first joined the company.

Be sure to check out our newly published feature on the demise of various consoles, including the original Xbox and Dreamcast.

AaronMC's picture

@ Kim-Naroz: I agree with your assessment of Rare. Rare produced the last of the N64's relevent games in Conker's Bad Fur Day, which Microsoft squandered with the re-release. Their games have been consistently good, something Microsoft can't say, and I think they'd do much better if Microsoft put any real weight behind them.

The early Rare games on the 360 were the only games worth playing. It was either their games or Gun, which was better on the original Xbox.

I also don't buy his hard drive argument. He mentions $199, which means he's referring to the time frame between E3 2002 and 2003. If he was paying $70 for an 8GB hard drive, his supply line was obscenely bad. At that time, the RETAIL price was $2-$3 per gigabyte (http://www.alts.net/ns1625/winchest.html), even if we assume the high-end, he could have walked into CompUSA and bought an 8GB hard drive for $24.

And yes, there are certain basic costs associated with the mechanism that means hard drives can only get so cheap, so implement, I think I've seen this somewhere, A BIGGER HARD DRIVE. Increase value instead of lowering the price.

If anything, I've heard the inflexible price associated with the Nvidia graphics chipset was the real anchor around the Xbox's neck (http://www.eetimes.com/news/semi/showArticle.jhtml;?articleID=10803514).

Moore should tell it like it is. They abandoned the Xbox because they wanted to beat PS3 to market. If the X360 wasn't such a PR disaster, it would have been called a good business decision. Now he's just trying to say "Ohhhhh, we had NO CHOICE. We had to abandon it!"

Yeah, right.

NickgamertagO1's picture

@AaronMC

Nicely put.

It was funny that he made it sound like the xbox was flying off shelves and they were a victim of their own success so they had to move forward. They've even said that they felt they needed to beat the PS3 to the market that time around.

Kim_Naroz's picture

Rare actually had to put up with some tough development environments on the Xbox and Xbox 360, primarily thanks to Peter Moore's poor management.

Remember, Perfect Dark Zero and Kameo: Elements of Power were originally planned as Gamecube games. Then, they were scheduled for the Xbox. Peter Moore finally insisted that they be "launch" games for the Xbox 360. When the developers at Rare were given Xbox 360 development kits, they found out that the development kits were referred to as "Pre-Alpha" development kits, which only allowed the programmers to use one-sixth of the CPU power of the Xbox 360...that is not an exaggeration--the Pre-Alpha development kits only let the developers at Rare access one of the six CPU Threads.

Even though the developers at Rare faced such an unusual set of circumstances on a system that was launching early, they still managed to include an online co-op mode in Perfect Dark Zero, which is something that the launch games for PS3 didn't have a year later on a console that launched late! So, I give Rare a lot of credit for that!

Perfect Dark Zero is still a great game that sold very well...Plus, there are rumors of Perfect Dark 2 (the true sequel to the original) in the works. If this is true, we can expect Rare to do a great job on the sequel.

Remember, Kameo: Elements of Power is a game in the Platform genre. This is something that was planned for the Gamecube because of the younger gamers and the females. It would have sold better if it was released on the Gamecube or the Wii. But games like Kameo, Viva Piniata, and Vivia Piniata Party are all games that DID satisfy the younger gamers and female gamers on the Xbox 360...that is one of the reasons "why" the Xbox 360 is so much more successful than the Playstation 3.

It is VERY IMPORTANT to remember that a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. Playstation 3 is nearly two years old and it STILL lacks games in the Real-Time Strategy genre, the Puzzle genre, the Platform genre, ect...

Games like Viva Piniata, Kameo, and Banjo are all great games in their genre!!!!!

It's true that certain genres aren't as popular as they once were, but that doesn't mean those genres aren't important. Developers like Rare are the entire reason "why" people can look at the Xbox 360 and say that it has great games in EVERY genre!

Rare created the new Avatar system for the Xbox 360, too.....and this will definitely appeal to gamers of all ages! In fact, this impressed people at the E3 show a lot.

When Rare gets the chance to release a new Perfect Dark game, a sequel to Killer Instinct, and possibly create a new game for older gamers, it will be very much appreciated. I know I wouldn't mind seeing the original R.C. Pro AM released on Xbox Live Arcade for 400 points....and I would LOVE to see a new R.C. Pro Am with 3D Graphics and 3D Letters to collect on the tracks of the Xbox 360.

gyak's picture

"Playstation 3 is nearly two years old and it STILL lacks games in the Real-Time Strategy genre, the Puzzle genre, the Platform genre, ect.."

I may sound like a total PS fanboy but you just said it second time, so let's do your homework again.
Strategy games: Valkyria Chronicles, PixelJunk Monsters (yea, it's tower defense AND strategy), Disgaea 3 (JSRPG - if you know what does that mean).
As far as I know Bionic Commando Rearmed or LittleBigPlanet (I know it's not out yet) are platformers.
The only point you may be "right" is the lack of puzzle games on the system (maybe there are some, I'm too lazy to check them).

Pro tip: don't copypaste dumb / zealous PR phrases into your posts. Check your facts instead.

NickgamertagO1's picture

The stuff he said about rare was fair enough.

As far as the rest of the stuff, I would agree that the 360 has a more varied lineup, but I would attribute that to just having the largest installed base more than anything (at least between HD next gen systems). There aren't NONE of those genres, but there are less. And as far as traditional real time strategy, a lot of those games are being made for the 360 and PC, why they're not going to the PS3 is any one's guess.

Bleak Corner's picture

Puzzle games... Echochrome, Elefunk, flOw (somewhat), Piyotama... stuff like that. Pixeljunk Eden is a cross between a platformer and a puzzle game.

gyak's picture

Thanks for the superb addition. How could I forget all these things? Yea, Eden IS a platformer too.

NickgamertagO1's picture

@ Kim_Naroz

Other than some of you PR antics, you do make some good points in there. But I'm happy MS allowed you to confirm RC pro-am for XBLA for $400 points. Do you (MS) have a release date on that yet? You can always let it "slip". So it'll have the old version as well as an updated version on the same DLC? Good on you MS.

toadwarrior's picture

Rare was going to shit in the N64 days which is why I thought it was no real loss to see them go when Nintendo gave them up.

They made some decent games in the past but it was Nintendo control that got them putting out decent stuff like DKC and Goldeneye but as Rare started self publishing and doing things outside of Nintendo's control the lack of quality started showing up again. Rare needs a company like Nintendo to put pressure on them, imo.

Huw Jass's picture

Don't forget that some of the key staff at Rare (those who had a big hand in classic titles such as 'Goldeneye') eventually left the company to set up Free Radical Design (http://www.frd.co.uk/).

NickgamertagO1's picture

True.

Rare did have some Gems (pardon the pun) Jet Force Gemini was actually a great game that came toward the end of the N64's life cycle. But I think with their hisotrically long developement times and not enough profit Nintendo didn't have a problem letting them go. Didn't they let Retro go, too?

The new Banjo looks like it could be cool, and with the aggresive pricing and (free?) XBL arcade download of the original Banjo with purchase of the new Banjo it could turn out to sell well. (Wow, I just sounded like a PR person.) Rare could help them with their "casual" crowd efforts, other than that, I don't know how much they're worth to them. Maybe the avatars will turn out to be really cool...? Maybe not...

Limanima's picture

The XBox 360 is so ugly compared to the old XBox. They changed the design for the worse.

German's picture

Maybe they were harsh words but I can't help but agree with him, don't get me wrong, I love RARE but the games and the response they have generated is but a shadow of its former self. PDZ is a good game but not close the N64 version of Perfect Dark.

sargemat's picture

He was a bit hard on RARE. The new Viva got very good reviews and the up coming Bajo looks like a lot of fun and has some very cool ideas. They also developed Avatars for the 360s next update.