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Natal’s Launch Will Match Xbox 360’s - Microsoft

Tom Ivan's picture

By Tom Ivan

June 12, 2009

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The launch of Xbox 360 motion control sensing peripheral Project Natal will rival that of the console’s debut, according to Microsoft's corporate vice president for the Xbox platform.

"Conceptually, the launch of Natal will be like the launch of Xbox 360," Shane Kim told Kotaku. "It's going to be that big. We're not just going to ship it when the hardware and software are ready.

“We have to make sure that there are enough content experiences that are really good. That's similar to how you would think of the launch of a new console. It's got to have a great launch line-up.”

Kim also said that Microsoft is hoping to capture the non videogame playing market with Natal.

"We're not focused on this generation's casual gamers or even PS2 people who haven't upgraded. This is about the 60 percent of households where a videogame console doesn't exist… The problem is that the controller is a barrier for some people and now with Project Natal we completely eliminate that."

Davidovitch's picture

"This is about the 60 percent of households where a videogame console doesn't exist… The problem is that the controller is a barrier for some people and now with Project Natal we completely eliminate that."

Where do they get the idea that the controller is the reason for 60% of the people not to own a console?

Tony-Wicks's picture

Well, perhaps they're talking about the impact it will have on your wallet?

mentor07825's picture

Okay, I like Microsoft and all that, but seriously?

Rival the launch of the 360? How can you possibly say something like that? It's a bloody peripheral! it's like saying that Logitech's new mouse will rival the sales of a Dell computers! I mean, come on now.

I like you guys, Microsoft. Just.....just pull that head out of your ass now

dreamhunk's picture

the true nature of the evil empire
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3174762
http://www.thehdroom.com/news/Report_Project_Natal_is_the_Next_Xbox_360_...

I should say microsft lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah1oWMd45LE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7KkFcyOklg

i wonder how 360 fanboys are going to feel,lol Now consoles gamers have to upgrade like us pc gamers

rydamike's picture

The Playstation Eye can do everything Natal can do so I dont understand what the big fuss is all about can someone please explain it to me bc the things I seen of Natal at E3 Ive been able to do with the PS3 all along and the things it cant do like voice recognition could easily be implemented with software .

nolim's picture

It's not the same as Playstation Eye, M$ already have the Vision Camera for that, it's based on an M$ developed technology similar to that used by 3DV.
http://www.3dvsystems.com/
Which is no doubt why M$ bought the company, in order to stop them selling a similar tech to Sony.

rydamike's picture

Sooooo again what exactly can "NATAL" do that the PS eye cannot do with the right software ?

nolim's picture

Natal uses an infra-red sensor that measures the reflected feedback to build a skeletal 48 point model of the body in 3D, which is why light levels are largely unimportant, it also has a normal RGB camera, like the PS eye, plus a mic for voice recognition, this is all combined by an on board cpu to process the data before it reaches the Xbox.

ArronC07's picture

It's because its Microsoft and as everyone knows gaming and innovations in gaming never existed before Microsoft entered the market ad introduced them.

JungleMunquay's picture

He's got the same expression as Lassard from Police Academy (lady under the podium??)

Jimmy Page's picture

As big as launch day??? Phfffffttttt. I want some of whatever he's smoking.....

vozroth's picture

I think Natal will do very well. And the innovation on using it will be up to the developers to come up with great new ways in playing games. If you guys don't like the idea plan and simple ignore it all together. Some of you on here have already made your point that your not into the idea because you want things to stay in the same route. But there some of you here that just keep coming back on here to troll and write some stupid comments. Stay on topic and make a good points if you have any. Besides calling a product that isn't even out yet vapor ware.

DubsTF's picture

You're not the boss of me!

StealthBadger's picture

Well, I'd agree that achievements are about as meh as an innovation can be (in fact, they irritate me intensely, but that's another discussion for another day), but xbox live is a pretty massive thing. I guess sony and MS were developing that stuff at the same time, but MS seemed to come to the marketplace with the better product in that respect (I think they're about comparable now, but i'm not as experienced with live, as i didn't resubscribe - i don't play online enough to make it worth it, when almost all of the online games i want come out on ps3 too).

Anyway, back on topic. How much did MS spend on the promotion for the 360 initially then? I don't know, but i'd imagine that it's a pretty spectacular sum. If they're going to spend that much again, then they'd better hope people REALLY dig the idea of being able to play wii games without the burden of a white stick in their right hand.

Forgive my cynicism, but I still fail to see people wanting to use this kind of control interface for anything other than dancing games. I'm equally as dubious about sony's attempt to integrate their motion control into "hardcore" games. I've only succesfully seen "hardcore" motion control in metroid prime 3 so far, and for that to work with a camera, it would have to be able to pick out your trigger finger moving? (can natal do that? I have no idea. Even if it can, it'd feel more natural holding something vaguely gun-shaped, surely?)

Seeing as we're doing disclaimers; I more or less own all of the consoles except psp (share flat with brother, we own all of them between us).

This post ended up very vry long...

DubsTF's picture

I have a point or three to make about Live.

First of all, I have accounts on both PSN and Live (Gold) and find them extremely useful for getting download-only games, add-ons for the games I own and necessary patches and whatnot. I also enjoy racing against real people in Burnout and even playing the occasional round of deathmatch.

Having said that, all the "extra" things on Live, the ways in which it supposedly exceeds PSN or even Nintendo's online offerings, things like clans and microphones for everybody and cross-game voice chat and whatever else, are things about which I couldn't care less and things which do absolutely nothing to enhance my enjoyment of a game. Frankly, I think it's only a small but vocal minority of users who actually do care about these things. Same goes for Achievements—don't care.

Also, as someone points out below, there's little to nothing on Live that didn't exist in PC multiplayer online gaming first. It's not like Microsoft invented these things out of the blue for Live.

So I think the way Live constantly gets held up as some shining example of Microsoft "innovation" is more than a little disingenuous. Also, if the dubious "innovations" of Live and Achievements are the best (or only?) examples people can come up with of Microsoft being out in front of anything that's pretty sad for such a large company with so much money and so many supposedly bright people, don't you think?

grognard66's picture

Just because the additional things Live and it's community offers isn't of interest to you doesn't mean it isn't of interest to the other 20 million Live members, DubsTF. Also, the last time I checked, PC multiplayer didn't have a central, standardized format all PC games followed and worked with - that's the innovation MS brought - every game works the same way across the entire library every time.

MS also brought the first HD to consoles, the first online console video store, the first online console game add-on's, the first online console game downloads, the first console dashboard customization feature (themes) and the first internet integration (api's) for console games. Just because you (and Sony) refuse to acknowledge these things doesn't mean they didn't happen.

ArronC07's picture

What worries me about natal is the fact that you have nothing tangible in your hand and that may feel a bit unrewarding. Can you imagine playing an FPS not only with no rumble (the big issue with the original SIXAXIS) but with no trigger button? What about playing golf with nothing to hold onto when you take a swing?

I think MS might have a bit of a white elephant on their hands here and that Natal will end up being quite niche in the type of games it's implemented in and how it's implemented. If I'm right is this something I or other people will really want to spend the money on for something that on the surface looks like it could be quite versatile yet ends up being quite restrictive- particularly in the middle of a recession when I could just spend the money on new games.

grognard66's picture

I think the early titles will demonstrate this very valid concern, ArronC07, since those will be the easiest (and quickest) types of games to develop. Hopefully, they can avoid the trap Wii development fell into where (with very few exceptions) developers failed to move beyond that design approach.

The potential exists for some pretty neat integration used in tandem with a standard console controller. Hopefully, MS will take the lead on this and incorporate it in unique ways, so other developers can follow that lead. I'm thinking along the lines of optional hand squad gestures and/or voice commands to control your squad in a Ghost Recon type game, etc.

It's sounding like Natal won't come out until next Holiday (at the earliest), so I'm hoping we'll be near the end of the recession (or even out of it) by then! Also, I get the impression (and it's just speculation on my part from reading between the lines) that this may not actually be very expensive, considering they are going to bundle it in with every system when it does launch.

Peter_Pesic's picture

MS PR has had a lot of trouble accurately explaining that you can scan in objects and use them with Natal. As well you can still use a controller.

For me, the Natal, "motion control" only games do not interest me in the least, but if Natal can be used to do little things in traditional games, i.e. in a driving game, being able to check the left/right blind spot by turning my head slightly in either direction, then I'll pick it up without question. And I'm sure simple things like that are only the tip of the iceberg of the applications creative Devs can implement.

DubsTF's picture

Hoo boy, this whole Project Vapor thing is really taking a turn for the pathetic. "We're not just going to ship it when the hardware and software are ready." WTF?

Poor Shane Kim and Don Mattrick: forced to parrot Reggie's E3 2006 speech almost word for word.

Poor Microsoft: always the follower, never the innovator, flushing billions of their Windholes dollars down the toilet tilting at windmills.

And poor Microsoft fanboys and Microsoft-paid viral marketers, who'll jump on this thread trying their best to defend and prop up this buffoon's schlocky, ineffectual posturing. They're the ones I really feel for.

ColRomColumn's picture

ok, maybe you would like to pop back to N4G now

DubsTF's picture

This would-be insult would've been that much better if you'd written it as a complete sentence with capital letters and a period at the end. WHO should go back to N4G? Or perhaps grammar school?

Better luck next time.

NickgamertagO1's picture

Regardless of his lack of punctuation, he makes a very good point. Most of the time you act like a dumb-ass.

DubsTF's picture

Why, because I say things with which you disagree?

At least I don't retreat into cursing and name-calling when I don't have a valid counter argument. AHEM. Maybe if I spent more time on Live I could pick up those "skills."

Gaara42's picture

Underhanded insults, sarcasm, all-cap words, misleading claims - these are some of the methods you used which are not involved in a valid argument.

Insulting someone's grammar is first rate ad homenim; the 'skills' comment was unneeded and demeaning; 'AHEM' and 'WHO' have no place, people here can read and understand without the distracting caps; and 'this whole Project Vapor' is a statement which does not hold. Other companies have already developed similar technology and Microsoft, even if they didn't develop it first, has a knack for putting out a product, even if it doesn't meet expectations.

'Poor Microsoft: always the follower, never the innovator' is a false claim.
innovate
-to make changes : do something in a new way
Microsoft does not have to be the very first company to produce something or have its engineers be the pioneers. On the other hand, it was able to make the necessary changes to release a product that people will buy. Furthermore, business is not solely about innovation, but anticipating and catering to those who buy in your market, which, especially in IT, Microsoft is good at.

There will be those who claim that people don't buy Microsoft products anymore, they are just 'forced' into buying them. First, unless someone can provide me an article, I have never heard of Microsoft coercing consumers into buying their products (file type lock-in and other proprietary schemes is not coercion, the consumer should take into account that file-types, etc. are not portable across all systems. There are also Linux and OSX file formats that Windows OSs won't recognize). Second, the EU and other governments seem to forget that Windows OS is Microsoft's OS, not public property or domain as they claim, telling them they can't put certain features on is akin to telling Lexus they can't make a specialty part on their car that makes it so you have to get your seats from them.

Companies like Apple don't innovate as much as people give them credit for, even OSX is based heavily on other technologies (including the Dock, etc.) developed earlier and the real innovation of iPod+iTunes was the store and integration, the hardware is satisfactory (the scroll wheel is a horrible UI design) and the software does the job (off and on very buggy on Windows, though better on OSX).

Microsoft gets a lot of flack, even when looking at all it is doing recently (Win7, Windows Sever 2008, Virtualization push, Natal, Windows Live, Microsoft Surface, etc.) after the old guard is moving on and it is hard to understand people's deep seeded hatred of the company. Their battles with the EU and other governments are over suspect antitrust laws which need serious revision (ala Amazon.com vs Lang Law) and political discourse on their true purpose.

Project Natal sounds like a good idea beyond just video games. I wish it to succeed as it could have amazing application (should they make it viable and cheap) in clinical applications and other aspects of rehabilitation and conducting research. Video games are already helping people recover more quickly and enjoyably, it would be great to see this taken to the next level. Imagine a soccer player who has been injured. They don't want to risk kicking an actual ball too early and hurting themselves again so they instead fire up PES or FIFA on Xbox-Natal and do some light drills that keep their muscle memory intact while reducing the risk of further injury.

Lastly, the fact is, Apple/Sony/Microsoft/RIM/etc. don't care that much over these debates that flare up, at the end of the day they are making their profit, the average person has preferences or needs that once it comes time to splash the cash, this hatred of this company or that one dissolves into the practicality and usability of their product and whether it conforms to their needs.

Thanks if you got this far.

DubsTF's picture

Wow, you have to be the most hardcore Microsoft apologist I've ever run across. Congratulations, I guess.

it is hard to understand people's deep seeded hatred of the company

You must live in some alternate reality. Here's a little light reading for you called "Microsoft: A History of Anticompetitive Behavior and Consumer Harm."

(Funny you should mention the ridiculous Surface project, too. When was that announced again? And when will it be available for everyone to purchase? I predict a similar trajectory for Project Vapor.)

Gaara42's picture

http://www.mujweb.cz/www/regulace/EB038/Microsoft2.doc

I looked over the document and several things become clear. (I will identify the author(s) as he/his/etc. as there doesn’t seem to be a name provided).

The article you provided is very one sided in its dispersion of the facts and only provide details that supported his view. The antitrust theories and claims to ethical misconduct by Microsoft are questionable. Even if something leaves a bad taste in your mouth, it does not give you the privilege of busting up other people’s property as you see fit. It appears he wrote the article with the thought, ‘Microsoft is guilty’ rather than ‘Is Microsoft innocent, guilty or a combination of both?’

His writing seems to indicate that he believes that law=ethics and so if Microsoft was violating the law, it was being unethical, even if those laws were shoddy. Further, why the constant mention of monopoly everywhere? Why is it not discussed what a monopoly actually is so those reading know exactly what the issue at hand is? His use of select quotes from Microsoft employees often seem truncated and do not reveal the true intent. I do not have time to look at all his sources or their validity.

Also what is rarely explained is how Microsoft goes from the initial ‘embrace’ step to actually getting consumers (corporate or otherwise) to buy enough of their product to give them market power. I am skeptical of punishing a company for entering markets, providing a product that consumers then buy and subsequently punishing them for it. Also, his ‘higher prices’ claim near the end does not hold water, especially when inflation is taken into account. And arguing about release dates or ‘quality’ of a product from select reviewers (many of who have a biased against Microsoft), doesn’t lend credibility to the supposed case against Microsoft.

Further, it is the essence of a monopoly not to be pressure to innovate as much once it has a dominant position, this is not somehow exclusive to Microsoft as the article implies. Of course they (or any other company) will be highly innovative when competition is fierce and stagnant when there is no competition. Look at Apple and the iPod line.

Also, many of his arguments are not valid in that he quickly goes from several propositions to a conclusion which may only be partially supported (high market share->’inferior product’->means OEMs not conforming to consumer demands)
---
Word is a monopoly in terms of market share, but WordPerfect, Open Office, etc. can use .doc and other Word file formats (and in WP's case, is superior in many regards). And unlawful behavior does not mean unethical behavior, especially when the laws are founded on shoddy philosophic and ethical foundations.

Regarding the graphic shown, Word was clearly beating WordPerfect before the alleged ‘scheme’ started to take place in 1994; it appears the trajectory was such that the two productivity suits would have ended up with the same market share regardless.

Also, I and many others I know, chose to switch to Word from WordPerfect not because of some Microsoft pressure or de facto standard issue, but because the product (Word) is in fact better than WordPerfect for many task and its superior integration with Excel and other Office programs is more fluid and productive than Corel's WordPerfect suit of software (Quattro, Presentations, etc.). Microsoft didn’t ‘extinguish’ WordPerfect, and the ‘barrier to entry’ here is made up, as I have continued to be able to use WordPerfect fine up until I decided to switch to Word. Also, Outlook (ignoring its integration features) is very usable and holds up well to other email clients such as Thunderbird. The calendar portion of Outlook leaves some things to be desired though.

What he does not say in his end remarks on how Microsoft’s Office productivity monopoly has hurt consumers is that Word 2007 can still save files in old standards and can even load competing products proprietary file-types, such as WordPerfect, quite smoothly. Also, a lack of major software releases ignores SPs or other incremental changes or the nature of Office productivity, which at its core the purpose for doesn’t change that much.
---
If the author(s?) had taken an econ class, he would know that monopolies or companies with market power have different methods of calculating supply and price than companies in a competitive environment or who have to take the price as given. While this can create dead-weight loss for society, it does not necessarily mean that we would be better off wasting so many resources prosecuting Microsoft and causing it to be unproductive by altering its products and constantly having the court-battle money drain. Further, it seems that the actual costs to consumers are never calculated (including benefits), only hypothetical constructs and ‘fairness’ claims.

---
The IBM case is also frivolous. IBM was directly competing with the product Microsoft was supplying them. Thus, discriminatory pricing is not unethical, it is merely illustrating to IBM that they cost more for Microsoft since they are potentially taking away from Microsoft’s sales.

The Sun case is not accurately reported by the article, especially in light of the fact that it was Sun who ended up not renewing its license with Microsoft and thus not allowing Microsoft to bundle it with Windows versions such as XP.

The 'per processor fee' antitrust case holds no water. If the OEMs really wanted to, they would have come together as a group and pressure Microsoft into not including this clause. Without hardware OEMs, Windows would have no market (Microsoft wasn't much of a hardware producer). Further, how is this contractual arrangement, which both parties agree upon, somehow unethical and why should a third party get involved? They weren’t agreeing to gang up and force Apple to pay Microsoft fees. Notice it was the US DOJ that filed the suit, not the OEMs.
---
The ‘barrier to entry’ should not be construed as it is ‘harder’ to enter the industry, which is you need to release a substantially better product and have the PR to make the public aware (or hence all companies in such R&D heavy industries as pharmaceuticals would be brought to court for the extremely high barrier to entry inherent in that business, partially created by the monopoly granting patents the government awards). It should be seen as some sort of physical barrier to entry, something that on a true market without government intervention here and there (which is enforced by force), would not happen as it would make forceful action against another individual(s), which has ethical grounds for punishment.

The article doesn't give enough solid evidence of actual wording or ‘fear, uncertainty, and doubt’ spread by Microsoft. The fact was, Microsoft had built Windows to start being incompatible with DR-DOS (or other parts of its OS to be incompatible with other products). It's their own product, they can choose to use a competitor’s product or not.

The 'integrated' or 'tying' issue is moot. There are many features in Windows that are bundled which threaten a certain niche markets (Windows Defender, Explorer, VPN, Backup and Restore, Defrag, etc.), but including things like better security software, a browser, a media player in Microsoft's own product is to the benefit of consumers, competitors must develop a much better product in order to cause consumers to switch over and they must make it cheaper in order to compete.

Further, Microsoft has been lowering the price on its OSs, since when you take into account inflation, the $299 price tag of XP Pro vs. Vista business means that Vista cost less (to buy) and you get more (I will not go into the XP vs. Vista debate, this is about price). It has been seen that Microsoft enters industries and consequently the prices in those industries drop as companies try to compete with Microsoft (who often offers their product for less than the going price), a boon for consumers.
---
Regarding Microsoft and Netscape see the article attached at the beginning of this post. What the article does not note is that Microsoft gave away IE for free, incurring a loss on itself, and forcing Netscape to lower the price on its browser (to corporate), a benefit to consumers. Further, their strategy to tweak Internet standards never worked, as is evident by various IE versions not displaying websites that are W3C certified to have correct CSS and HTML formatting. What is interesting is that he never talks about Netscape’s monopoly on the browser market until Microsoft entered and Netscape being tied into other OSs.

Also, the 'network effect', which is apparent with Windows and Word, is something most companies (ala Google (search), Apple (iTunes+iPod), Facebook (social networking) and others) seek for certain types of consumer products that become more useful once more people are on their network. Furthermore, while Apple and Linux distros have a minority market share, for those who want to, it is not that hard to switch to them, especially now that Macs can dual boot quite easily. Though there are for some corporate users a high cost to migrate fully from Windows to OSX or another OS.

The strategy of beating its competition (through the 'embrace, extend, extinguish' strategy) is not straight up unethical as the article claims and does not spend enough time looking at the merits of the strategy.
---
‘Microsoft apologist’ is not really needed; don't give people labels. Is there a purpose to giving me a label then making an underhanded insult with it? It does not belong.

I am question the ethical conduct of the Justice Department and the EU. Antitrust laws are taken by many as a given, not many people question whether they are actually hurting society should a cost-benefit analysis be done.

Furthermore, what is the purpose of this question 'When was that announced again? And when will it be available for everyone to purchase?'? Go look it up if you care to know and then make a statement regarding it, don't ask ambiguous questions meant as hidden attacks.

And ‘You must live in some alternate reality,’ is neither helpful nor true. Stop with the personal attacks.

Thank you if you got this far.

http://www.aynrand.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5274
http://blog.mises.org/archives/005656.asp
http://www.mises.org/article.aspx?Id=419&FS=+Break+Up+Microsoft?
http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~mbernste/tae.ethics&law.herrera.html
http://www.scu.edu/ethics/practicing/decision/framework.html

mentor07825's picture

So....so many words....

DubsTF's picture

Furthermore, what is the purpose of this question 'When was that announced again? And when will it be available for everyone to purchase?'? Go look it up if you care to know and then make a statement regarding it, don't ask ambiguous questions meant as hidden attacks.

Hidden attacks? It is moderately common practice here on Earth 2009 to ask a question to which one already knows the answer in order to make or emphasize a point, in this case to highlight Microsoft's long-running track record of vaporous product announcements.

In the case of the Surface, originally "Project Milan," it was announced about two years ago as a hasty response to the iPhone reveal and at the time it was claimed that the idea had originally been pitched to Gates and prototyped in 2003. Currently, Microsoft's own Surface website says that "consumers will be able to purchase Microsoft Surface in about two to four years." This "magical" technology is essentially an overturned bathtub with a projector and some cameras taped to the bottom and by their own timeline it's taking about 10 years to go from idea to product, so you'll forgive me if I don't hold my breath for the release of Project Vapor. Or, for that matter, actual concrete details about its release.

Gaara42's picture

Microsoft Surface was actually started around 2001 or the idea was originally formulated then. It was not a response to the iPhone, maybe the announcement was, but the development of the technology wasn't.

It is a common practice to ask a question (that is leading, for which a statement would have been more appropriate), but it is also common to use personal attacks, doesn't make either needed in a discussion. Also, really? 'Earth 2009'? Continue.

Microsoft Surface is not a vaporous product, not everything take a couple years to finalize and release. Can you give me more examples of complete products Microsoft has announced which are vaporous (hardware related) or never made it to market?

Also, Microsoft recently released SP1 for surface, hardly the sign of a vaporous product.
http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/05/11/microsoft-surface-sp1-adds-features...
http://www.pcauthority.com.au/News/147427,how-microsoft-surface-opens-up...
-recent news

Indrema's picture

Burn!

I don't know how you think you can respond to that last post, Dubs.

You got totally faced in paragraph 17, but things really heat up by paragraph 28. All your "hidden attacks" are explained in paragraph 44, but I see how you missed it - line 18 of paragraph 43 would've pissed me off too. Low Blow!

But the "meat" of the response is in the first 2 lines of paragraph 61. After reading that, I going to have to say that you're way off base on this one.

Gaara42's picture

Hilarious, see how the only paragraph you mention that exist is paragraph 17. The post wasn't that long.

DubsTF's picture

Seriously. Are there Cliffs Notes for that comment? Maybe a cover page and an EXECUTIVE SUMMARY?

Indrema's picture

Aren't they all evil corporations?

Sony used to install virus programs on people's computers, embedded in music CD's, to track piracy efforts. The also used Chinese sweatshops to undercut competitor's battery prices; resulting on thousands of laptops catching fire. They are in a pending lawsuit, right now, over a professor who displayed her Blue-Ray - notice the name change - technology. 6 months later, they had a blue-laser reading device that looked very similar. Apparently, they rushed the patent through before the professor could get hers apporoved. That's business, but it isn't very ethical.

Nintendo was the "sue-happy" king of the 1980's. Best lawsuit? Against Sega claiming they not only held the rights to the "cross", but also the geographical directions of Up/Down/Left/Right! They were also known to extort retail enviornments. They would pull all NES stock if they decided to stock competitors.

There are no longer any "Underdogs". It doesn't matter who wins

kingheff1's picture

Ah, the "good old days" of Nintendo under Hiroshi Yamauchi. I think it's fair to call his management style "old fashioned." That's the politest way I can think of describing him. Of course big business is still big business but I think Nintendo under Iwata are a different beast from the old days.

DubsTF's picture

I'm not here to defend Sony or Nintendo. And yet, neither do I frequently take them to task.

I guess there are degrees of evil.

NickgamertagO1's picture

Touche.

Steviepunk's picture

disclosure first, I have a PS3 and a 360. So I don't really care either way about the whole Microsoft Vs Sony Vs Nintendo thing - I just enjoy the games I get on whatever format I decide to get them on.

I would correct your 'never the innovator' comment.
Microsoft created Xbox Live, which is an excellent service and the first of it's kind in the console sector - with out Live, I doubt that Sony would have bothered too much about creating the PSN (which on launch seemed rushed, though now it has matured significantly).
Secondly, Microsoft introduced the Achievements, which have taken off in a huge way and have become an integral part of a users Xbox Live profile. Without these we certainly wouldn't have had PSN Trophies.

As for Natal, I don't really care about it myself or Sony 's motion controller (which is the reason why I don't have a Wii), I just don't particularly like the whole motion control way of controller games, I like joypads and joysticks. Not sure why you are so anti-Microsoft, you seem very set on bashing Natal at any opportunity, as I'm sure anyone who often reads the comments will be aware. It's you I'd have to feel sorry for, I just go about my life and play games when I have the time, I don't see what can be gained in having so much emotional involvement for or against a console manufacturer!

ArronC07's picture

I'm sure Valve were there first with both achievements and online community services. Hell SEGA got there first with online console gaming.

grognard66's picture

Actually, ArronC07, Valve freely admits that they "borrowed" achievements from MS. Also, Steam launched almost simultaneously with Live (it had a few games for distribution in Spring, but didn't start supporting online play - as a Beta for Counter-Strike - until late in 2002). The community features on Steam did not start showing up until years after Live had them.

Yeah, Sega had dial-up online console gaming first, which was really radical for that time, but no standardization/uniformity. They certainly deserve credit for trying it at all though!

NickgamertagO1's picture

Actually, I believe you're both wrong. The SNES had Xbvnd (56k sweetness) that died a quick death, but I did get my lag-tastical Street Fighter and Mario Kart action on...er...online.

kingheff1's picture

Didn't Nintendo have some kind of NES downloadable game service in Japan only? I don't remember anything at all about it, but it's kind of funny that they've been doing it the longest and yet are still the least developed of the console manufacturers in terms of online.

DubsTF's picture

Microsoft created Xbox Live
Microsoft introduced the Achievements

(Disclosure: I own all three consoles.)

Indrema's picture

Dubs, you didn't read the post close enough. He said it would match the launch of the 360, but he didn't say what country's launch. He could be refering to the Japanese launch -

You know, one guy walks into a gamestore on launch day:

"Do you have a bathroom?"

"We have a 360."

"Do I need to buy one to use the bathroom?"

"I'm sorry, the bathroom's for customers only."

"Fine. I'll take one."

Dave_Decades's picture

I'm not sure Dubs is into reading much. He just sees the words Microsoft or Xbox and starts going on tangents of how they suck. Check his posts out, it's hilarious how much time he must have spent on knocking MS over the last few weeks.

I almost feel bad for fanboys...but then they're usually too smart alecky to feel bad for.

no disclaimer necessary...check my posts.

DubsTF's picture

Hey, I make no bones about the fact that I harbor a strong dislike for Microsoft and their slimy, smarmy ways. Maybe you should ask yourself why—it's not like I just woke up one day and decided to go around trashing them.

Dave_Decades's picture

Fair enough I guess...but did MS kill your mom or something? I just don't get the whole personal vendetta thing. EVERY corporation in America EVER has acted "slimey and smarmy" in one way or another. It's just the way it is.

Why go half way with just MS? Go get some Iggy & The Stooges records and go full-on anti-establishment.

NickgamertagO1's picture

Maybe it's because you're a...paid Sony viral marketer!!!

DubsTF's picture

How I wish! No, I provide this service pro bono. It's not my fault that the Sony and Nintendo PR machines are so inept at countering Microsoft's FUD.

NickgamertagO1's picture

Hmmm, not sure what FUD means. But, I'm sure it's awesome.

[Disclaimer: I'm a beast at Guitar Hero]