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PS3 Trophy Support Mandatory in '09
Sony Computer Entertainment will be requiring all PlayStation 3 games to incorporate the Trophy award system beginning in 2009.
A rep for Sony Computer Entertainment America told Edge in an e-mail, "Yes, this is correct for titles submitted after January 1. Obviously many teams have already started to incorporate trophies and even include support for older titles."
While a number of PS3 games do support the Trophy system, which awards gamers with a virtual "trophy" for completing certain game objectives, Sony currently does not require companies to support the feature.
Word of the upcoming mandatory support first came out of Sony Computer Entertainment Europe, via VideoGamer.com.
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Taking into account that XBL launched on the original Xbox on November 2002, Microsoft has developed the service over 5+ years since it's incarnation.
PSN on the other hand launched on November 2006, so likewise XBL is going to be ahead in terms of features.
What Sony has done in the space of 2 years is nothing short of amazing.
Trophies are nice, although I admit I don't really take any notice of them that much. However I would say the system seems much better incorporated into the game experience on the XBOX, rather than the PS3, where it feels like a late addition.
What does surprise me is that there isn't more integration between trophies, in-game awards and (especially) DLC. You know, clear the game on a perfect setting for a gold trophy and win a downloadable thingumy, or 10% off your next live purchase.
@savagehenry - the success of 360 achievements is attributed to the meta aspect of the system. All games contribute to your score and, more importantly, it is easier to find like-minded friends by checking out the games they've played and how they play them (based on their achievements). This is why there is no point to releasing a trophy system 2 years after launch and why Sony should have had website integration from launch too.
I have both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD and enjoy buying and renting HD movies. However, I have no false illusions about the long-term viability of the "winning" format. I fully expect Blu-Ray to be a short-term placeholder while broadband speeds standardize and become ubiquitous enough that most content will be streamed/downloaded. The recent Netflix integration with 360 is just the latest sign that technology is getting to the level where hard formats will become obsolete. Whether that is good or bad for consumers has yet to be determined.
My gripe with Sony is they have a disturbing record of releasing hardware before the software is ready for it. Both Blu-Ray and PS3 launched without baseline standards for things like online and we now have segmented and scattered implementation of features when they finally do trickle out. This laissez-faire approach has resulted in frustration and confusing approaches to online (just look at Konami's disastrous MGS4 online offering and how many PS3 games don't even support voicechat). Contrast that with HD-DVD and 360 which had robust, standardized featuresets resulting in broad adoption and ease of use.
Sure, it didn't work out for HD-DVD (for other reasons) but it seems to be working quite well for 360. They still have the flexibility to expand on the featureset, but it launched with at least some standardization resulting in a vibrant, coherent atmosphere.
I find that method of metascoring somewhat elitist, and i think sony's implementation of trophies for individual games is a much fairer approach and allow me to compare individual games with my friends. But then I don't believe console gaming to be a quest for glory, I just like to be able to compare my progress to that of my peers. But Fairplay to you mate.. Each to his own and all that !!
PSone and two were the same, there is an extremely steep learning curve in terms of development techniques, the xbox has the luxury of having most of technology based on the direct X API making it easier for people to develop on the PC and then crossover, doesn't simplify the process but does make it more efficient.
Trouble with Sony Computer Entertainment is that the still have PS2 on the market and game for in development. PS2 is still deemed as a powerful system with very good game still being released. As soon as they drop this format the floodgates will open. This overlap has given the dev's time to catch up in term of education and development.. In contrast Microsoft dropped the first Xbox like a hot brick and there was no overlap as far as I can remember
You have to remember that this is Sony's first foray into the Online community, the PS2 touched on it, but the technology never really took off, Xbox live have been around since the previous console and has also built on what Microsoft have learnt from their Operating Systems. There issues that I personally have with in PSN and some of their facilities, Voice chat integration in game is a major bugbear you are right, certainly not as good as our xbox counterparts but most of us grin and bear it, use it anyway, it's actually got better, but there is a need to have a hosting option where you just chat to the people you play with at the moment everything is public. This is something that we all hope sony will address soon.
I personally I have been playing Metal Gear Online since it was released. it's an interesting concept, not perfect by any degree, but certainly not disastrous as you say it does support VOIP through you Bluetooth headset although this is very much reliant on you the backend that sony have provided.
Sony have been playing catch up since day one... Xbox has about a 1 year on Sony. So of course the feature on the Xbox are going to be more mature. But slowly but surely Sony are and will catch up and eventually overtake. There no malice in that statement. Because in a couple of years Xbox720 or whatever will be released and the whole argument will start again.
Hey savagehenry - thanks for the thoughtful response. Regarding MGO I probably should have been clearer. I was actually condemning Konami's convoluted sign-up process and not the actual experience of eventually playing the game online. The thing I like about Live as that every game is required to support voicechat and they all do it the same way to avoid these types of situations.
I've owned all of the systems the past two generations because I'm a sucker and this is my main hobby, so there is certainly no malice intended on my part either - all systems offer their slant on gaming and have their respective strengths and weaknesses (dont' get me started on 360's reliability). I have just grown increasingly frustrated with Sony's hubris this generation and sincerely hope that they've been chastened by their precipitous loss of market share and improve their performance next gen.
This is pointless (no pun intended) since there is already a 2 year game library that doesn't support trophies. Just another example of Sony dropping the ball and releasing the PS3 (and Blu-Ray for that matter) without firm and universal standards.
HD-DVD was dropped remember ? Sony/Blu-Ray won the format war, anyone remember Betamax ? . New technologies don't take off overnight so it'll be a while until Blu-Ray takes over from DVD. As a storage format it's huge compared to DVD - 25gb Single Layer - 50gb dual Layered, to DVD's 4gb and 8gb respectively. I believe HD-DVD did have about 10gb more capacity.
Yes there is a back catalogue to cater for, maybe they will, maybe they won't. But with at of the 1st Generation PS3 games getting sequals of prequals, I'm not sure that it will be to much of a problem for them. There is certainly no reason in the case of the very popular games, why they should recieve trophy support. For example, Battlefield Bad Company wasn't released with trophies but a few patches down the line, now it does. Although the implementation at the moment leave a lot to be desired. It's early days just give them a chance..
But its not early days, the ps3 has been out 2 years and it still can't match the 360's feature list from launch.
With that in mind. Maybe Sony are positioning themselves to offer there user a different experience and with that appeals to different people. PS3 isn't trying to muscle in on the xbox turf by having a ranking/trophy/achievement tracking system because it's going about in a very Sony way and is in essence completely different
Sony I would say are trying to pitch there console/entertainment systems at a completely different market. Please don't take this wrong, but it appeals more to the more mature audience, although this may we be a sweeping generalisation, although I remember in a recent poll the average age of ownership was about 30-35.
I guy that I work with is an audiophile is 60years old and a proud owner of a PS3 not because he's an avid gamer, but because at the time of release it was the cheapest and best way of getting Blue-Ray. at the time about £499 on release with all other Blue Ray player double that even What Hi-Fi gave it rave reviews for its Blue-Ray functionality. Since he bought it though his use of it has expanded and now he's using if for casual internet use and storing his photo's and to communicate with his son who lives abroad.
I couldn't see the Xbox offer him the same facility. in the same way the Nintendo Wii doesn't offer or a line itself with either of the other console it competes with, all consoles have similar facility but there is no need for them to match each other like for like.
What a boring a homogenised world we'd live if everything was the same
Its normally their best move but this gen Sony even managed to mess up stealing other companies ideas.
Oh please !! if we want to talk about plagiarism all the console companies are guilty of that in some degree or another. That's how the industry works, people bounce idea's off one another. Microsoft get's idea's from Sony, Sony from Nintendo etc.. Even Apple are trying to break in on the handheld market by plagiarising some popular games for their iphones..
It's all very incestuous.
trophy or not trophy, that is the question
I just ask for this: Please Sony make the AI in WipeOut weaker. I'm having a REALLY, REALLY hard time to get the trophie "Win all 16 tracks in Phantom Class Elite". There are tracks that I not that sure it is possible to win.
I know this may sound a bit naive but I still don't know what's the point with these achievements / trophies on my consoles. I know the concept of persistence (the main driving force behind any MMO) and all these buzzwords about them, but it's still beyond me. Why would anyone give a crap about fictitious, out of context rewards?
IF I could transfer them to MS points / PSN cards that would be interesting and I would be definitely interested.
I echo that sentiment. I never understood why anyone cared. Competition/bragging rights over your friends, maybe?
Ill post further on this tomorrow bed time work in the morning.
I know this is a Sony article and we xbots aren't supposed to post here, but I think Sony deciding to make it mandatory is the smartest thing they've done with the PS3. I'm not going to go into a long list of why I think its smart because I right now don't have any time to. Some of the games have crappy achievements (F.E.A.R, was terrible) while some had great ones ( Mass Effect). A lot of people I know who own a 360 love them, I've never heard one 360 owners say they don't like them. Some people don't care for them so much, but how can having a feature that you can literally ignore if you don't like it be a bad thing? Its not hurting the gameplay experience if there are achievements that you could care less about.
Anyway, good for Sony. I might actually consider getting a PS3 now.
Oh, and do you think developers really care all that much that they have to incorporate them? They've been doing it for 3 years now and most likely multiplat games will have the same achievements/trophies. Hell, some developers make some really clever achievements. Some have even had contests where fans got to choose some of the achievements. Achievement points can even be selling points for games if the reviews say they have good achievements. I can think of no reason why trophies are a bad thing.
I think more people are just kinda feeling like Sony is ripping MS off a bit and they don't want to feel like they are basically getting a 360 feature on their PS3. If trophies were around from the beginning I'm sure all the Sony fans would like them just like we xbots like our achievements.
Are they going to have point totals like achivements that would add to your ovverall total, or are they just game specific and don't tie to any total number? That would be lame if it was that way.
Ok, so maybe I had a bit more time than I though... ^^
Like I said, There can be some good achievements out there and some clever designers behind them. I don't doubt that. I just don't like the idea of them being mandatory.
I can see a lot of lazy designers using them as a cheap way to add "re-play" value to their game as you pointed out with FEAR.
But I also know they can be ignored. And I do ignore them. They are the modern version of a high score list. That is all. Some people play to get their initials on the board, others play to have some fun wasting a few quarters or in this case some time.
My only fear is that more developers will feel obligated and their designs will suffer because of it. I don't think developers should add anything to their game that they don't think adds to the experience. Which I guess just makes me sentimental for the "good old days".
So I am out.
I get the feeling here that the word "Mandatory" in your mind invokes some sort Orwellian nightmare, where Sony powerful and the developement as being oppressed. Forced into a situation that is beyond their control.
Like the Xboxer said above you, some of the most playable games have acheivement, trophies and stats of some description. People enjoy collecting stuff! The more anally retentive amoungst us might remember Final Fantasy 10 and the many hours that we wasted just going after the Celestial Weapons Boy do I wish there was some sort of trophy associated with that because nobody believes that I have got them all until I switch on the PS2 and show them Or and of you PC Battlefield 2 head that are still trying to get those gold awards, although at least with BF2 the community embraced the inbuilt statistics and went bonkers creating snazzy sites for them.
Developers are being and have been encouraged to use it since feature was release a few month back. I suspect the introduction of this feature was probably in reaction to a similar and very popular concept on other systems and what up. All console have a obligation to show that they are in someway involve with the socail networking aspect of gaming, gamer want to show off there achievements.. I can't think of any better way of doing it.
Developer will embrace the feature and have done thus far, Sony are just trying to encourage people to use it and why not. As an end user, I am certainly looking forward to more integration between the games and your PSN account.
You do know that achievements are mandatory on the 360 correct? Considering the 360 has around a 55% market share of 3rd party sales, it doesn't seem like developers mind them. If they don't mind its mandatory, why should the consumer?
I enjoyed the good ol' days just as much as the next guy, but having something tangible for my accomplishments even if only to highlight my gaming habbits just adds that much more to the experience. Oh, and did I say unlimited instant SD/HD streaming for 9 bucks from Netflix on my 360 was awesome?
Damn you Xboxers and you movie streaming, I think the PS3 has got something similar pegged. I'm sure I heard an rumour around the time of E3 that Sony where going to start release more media content through the PS3. Not sure when this is suppose to happen.
PS3 is gathering speed in that department, Xbox has alway been a little ahead. Least we get to see what you Xboxers come up with and then plagerise it :P
If the trophy element is well designed I don't see the problem with it, TF2 on the PC and other games have a whole list of achievements and are incorporated as an aside from the primary objectives. It does promote replay value if the user feels that going after 1000kills or whatever to get a gold trophy is justified.
Of course it is a good way of proving that you have completed the said game if a trophy would be award at the end based on you performance throughout the games. The Better you are the higher the trophy, this would definitely encourage competitiveness. Which could be either a good thing or bad,
Games like COD4 and Battlefield Bad Company would fall a little flat as they already have a good award/rank system built in it would be a shame to spoil that in favor of using the PSN trophy system, unless they could in someway display the two
First generation of games to use the trophy feature on Playstation 3 are a little half arsed and all I can't real see the feature being used for little more than bragging rights at the moment. But there no reason why it can be used for the management of stats through out all games.
Being Mandatory isn't so bad. The just want to encourage people to use the feature, but at the end of the day it's the end-user that will decide whether they collect everything 100% or not. At the end of the day the user wants to be entertained first and foremost and it would be a shames if this were undermined by a quest for shiny things
There is a huge difference between encouragement and forcing someone to do something. Encouraging would be Sony saying that they have the Trophy feature and listing all the positives of using it while still keeping it optional from a development standpoint. Here they are forcing it for good or bad. They have made it a binding part of the licensing contract.
I really don't think that this is something to get your knickers in a twist about, it's such a minor part of the games developement. If I were Sony, It would be prefferable to see people using it. It's not like sony are holding the community of developers to ransom.
Actually it's a good thing that they are writting the trophy function into the licence agreement at the moment it isn't supported as widely as anyone would have liked. Sony have spent time and money developing and so they would like to see it being put to good use, nothing wrong with that surely
This is what bugs me. What if I don't want to include awards for performing arbitrary tasks? It's not like any of the Xbox achievements actually progress you through the game. Most consist of "Kill 1000 bad guys without injury." or "Complete the last level in under 2 minute." Pointless. What is the ratio of players actually completing every achievement in every game they buy? I doubt it is not enough to warrant making it mandatory.
Also, from some of the achievements I have seen, many of them come across as afterthoughts. The developers complete the game and then say, "Oh crap. We forgot the achievements. What pointless tasks can we have players perform to get the points?"
Forcing game developers to include something like this is not okay in my book.
I don't think that developers feel forced to put the achievements/trophies in their games, also saying that is only an after thought.
Many gamers play their games not only to have a good old time but to test their skills, achievements provide that kind of satisfaction, if a player doesn't care about them fine it won't stop you from finishing the game and no harm is done. Just as you pointed out by saying:
"Oh crap. We forgot the achievements. What pointless tasks can we have players perform to get the points?"
I think developers will be more inclined to the achievements because: "Ok we just finished that the combo system and is working just fine, the obstacle course is done too and it looks and plays really cool. Now how can we get gamers to try their skills and keep playing our game a little longer after simply finishing it? Well we can add some achievements if they make a 50 hit combo, and we can get another one if they finish the obstacle curse in under the regular 2 minutes... how about 1:30? is it too hard or is a good enough challenge?? You get idea.
Developers are in no way complaining since the very nature of the achievements provides an extra incentive for gamers to play the games they invested so much time making. If people doesn't like them they will be long gone with the first Xbox 360 games but because gamer DO like the extra incentive now Sony is using them too. And most importantly it doesn't affect the gameplay at all, if you don't want to be doing random task just for points then don't do them and finish the game. To me its better to have them and don't need them than need them and don't having them.
I know that achievements can be a great addition to a game and improve their re-playability, but I have to admit, many achievements do seem tacked on and not a serious design decision.
I also have to stand by my opinion that forcing developers to include them is a bad move. There have been many great games with real re-playability built in that did not revolve around achievements. It seems that some developers may be more inclined to use achievements as a short cut to re-playability rather than good game design.
So I guess that would be my major concern. By forcing developers to include a feature, you could be inadvertently hampering good game design.
I completely agree. While achievements (or trophies) are a nice feature to have, forcing developers to incorporate them in their games is just stupid. Why not just trust game developers to make good use of such features when and where they want to?