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Scratched 360 Discs Affect "Less than 1%"
By Kris Graft
December 16, 2008
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"Too much movement of any game console, not just Xbox 360, can cause scratches on a disc."
Following the filing of a class action lawsuit revolving around scratched Xbox 360 discs, Microsoft said Tuesday that only a very small amount of users have experienced the problem.
“While we have had some users contact us with concerns about scratched discs, it is much less than 1 percent of the total Xbox 360 user base," a Microsoft spokesperson told Edge in a statement.
The rep continued, “Xbox 360 is designed so that it will not damage a game disc as long as the console is not moved while the disc is spinning. Too much movement of any game console, not just Xbox 360, can cause scratches on a disc."
A recently unsealed document that's part of an ongoing lawsuit called the Xbox 360 "defectively designed," alleging that if the console is tilted or swiveled "even slightly" while a game disc is spinning, media will become scratched, rendering a game unplayable.
The document claims that Microsoft knew of the issue before launching the console.
"That’s why we put a warning on the face of the disc tray, which the user has to physically remove before the initial use of the system," the rep added. "We also have warnings posted online and in hard copy instruction manuals.”
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This is RETARDED. It is not Microsoft's fault if your system gets knocked over by your cat or something and screws up. The discs are spinning very fast in there. If the system is thrown of balance, even slightly, this will cause the disc to wobble/shift while spinning. This is common in ALL disc based system that do no lock the disc into place. The original PS2's were the same way.
This is a dumb argument. The overheating (RROD) issues are legit though.
With all that's being said, it isn't going to change the fact that the 360 is a lump of plastic.
Alright Top, I see how you feel and I'm not gonna try to change that. It may be a lump of plastic, but it plays all my games just fine and hasn't died/scratched my discs. I can't ask for anything more.
The foam pads have been added to the 360 now for a long time, only the initial batch didn't have them.
Some people had their 360 discs scratched by moving their 360, some of them had their games scratched but weren't moving their system. MS added the foam to prevent the scratches a long time ago, I don't think any more time needs to be wasted talking about this. Just my thoughts. I don't think anything else can possibly added to this discussion.
55 thousand reported complaints out of 26 million 360s is less than 1%. It's just simple math. Everyone has a calculater on their computer, do the math. Less than 1% doesn't seem widespread to me.
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55 thousand reported complaints out of 26 million 360s is less than 1%. It's just simple math. Everyone has a calculater on their computer, do the math. Less than 1% doesn't seem widespread to me.
}
Saying that, 55,00 is half of the Nou Camp stadium. That's a lot. People have the right to bitch about it. I can't believe all these gamers that accept flawed hardware. It's crazy.
All they're doing is sending out the wrong message to platform holders i.e. it's OK to put out shit hardware because we'll buy it anyway.
Personally, i won't reward a firm with my cash for hardware that's clearly unstable.
Ok, Top. I don't agree that its "clearly unstable", but I respect your opinion.
You all don't get out much, do you? Just because it hasn't happened to you (RROD, anyone?), doesn't mean that it's not happening to others. Yes, it's common sense not to move your system while a disc is spinning in the drive, but not everyone has that much common sense. For the rest of us, the missing pads are either a problem or a potential problem.
The facts are that Microsoft and/or its drive providers didn't put the foam pads in in order to save a few cents per drive. When that came back to bite them in the ass, Microsoft figured it was cheaper to deal with it per incident than to institute a recall to fix/replace the drives. In addition, not every scratch disc was caused by some moron moving their system; if the spindle is out of kilter, or the disc label is lopsided just enough, it'll cause the disc to wobble, sometimes enough to cause it to graze the surface of the drive.
My 360s (when they're not en route to/from McAllen, TX) have all been sitting horizontal in my TV stand since day one, and *never* get moved while on. I've had some minor scratches here & there, but nothing consistent and nothing that has prevented me from playing any of my games. The only disc problem I've had was with PGR3; that one cracked around the center hub ring and Microsoft replaced it gratis after I called support (when it was still staffed by Canadians...)
I hope I’m not the only one who seems to think this is blown out of all proportion and lacking in common sense. It is blindingly obvious that if you shake a device, be it a 360, PS3 or your DVD player, it will scratch the disc! Sounds like someone got their favourite game scratched, wanted someone to blame and took things a little too far. Why is this even in the news?!
And it is not physically possible for the disc to get scratched without the 360 being moved.
M$ cut corners to save money ... surprise surprise.
For them to say only 1% have been affected is rubbish.As a member of quite a large online gaming group i have seen many complain about scratched discs,myself included.There are many cases where the console in question was not even moved.
While i will concede that people can do silly things,M$ really could have done more to make this problem better but chose not to.
The problems are caused by the high speed disc drive - if MS decided to 'cut corners to save money' and opt for a cheaper slower drive - you'd be complaining of slow load times.
Funny, many people here would say the exact opposite about their experiences + that of the online communities they belong to.
If it was a widespread problem, disc scratching caused by non-movement of the console would have been well documented (like the rrod) , can you point me towards anything that would confirm that? - (like an official article - not troll posts on forums.)
It's easy to just say things like that, but were's the proof?
The legal case yesterday was about scratching caused by movement. It's pretty lame and is an obvious attempt to scare people off buying a console in the holiday season , (much like the CNN report on the PS3 - with the current trend I'm expecting some sort of anti-wii scandal anyday now...)
I'm not saying there aren't isolated cases ( every format has these), you're implying the problem is widespread - that's what I disagree with.
AVA said:
"you're implying the problem is widespread - that's what I disagree with."
__________
55,000 complaints as of April this year isn't widespread?! Another naysayer in denial then.
Ummm.......... you can read , right???
Firstly I'm talking about disc scratches caused by NON-movement of the console.
Secondly the 55,000 is the number on the legal claim shown yesterday linked to the number of scratched discs caused BY movement of the console (they're completely unrelated) ,
which still isn't a fact , and the case won't be heard till Apr 09.
Why isn't it fact.......
Example - I could fill out a legal claim accusing you of being a troll , +fill out the necessary forms - I could even put big numbers on it , like I'd say 55,000 people agree with me. That's what the paper would say - and you wouldn't have the chance to legaly disprove that till your hearing. (Apr next year)
It's in your interest to put the truth on your claim - as lies can be easily disproved in court - but in this case, lies can affect console sales - and with the hearing in April......... By then the damage will be done - (which is why people sue for damages.)
See how easy it is?
Also , you should read up on what your talking about, otherwise poeple are just gonna ignore you.
There's a link to the pdf on the other thread.
AVA, i think you should keep your trap shut as it's doing you no good here.
Especially when the same 3 people keep repeating the keep on with the trollish remarks -
it's hard to have a talk , when you guys keep on repeating the same stuff without actually listening to what others say. It's not like I haven't noticed 'where' you guys are coming from - just by looking at your posts on the other threads.
The weird thing is when people start bashing the PS3 - I'll be on the same side as you lot.
I just don't get why? What's with all the bitterness? Don't they have anything better to do then to heckle people online?
Kinda sad really.
AVA said:
"Firstly I'm talking about disc scratches caused by NON-movement of the console."
___________
AVA, if you'd take your head out of your backside then you'd clearly see my denoted statement was marked for the above. i.e. NON-movement of the console
The next time you reply to someones comments...i suggest you read them first, clearly, before replying!
But the 55,000 you quoted to prove this is from is from the claim regarding scratches caused BY movement.
Take a deep breath and read s l o w l y.
The 55,000 complaints - and - NON-movement have NOTHING to do with each other.
Do I have to spell it out for you.......... ( I just did!)
I did read your comments - but you obviously haven't read mine , or the actual pdf those figures came from.
......(Hee hee , this is funny!)
Didn't i tell you to read users comments clearly?!
Sigh, these is no talking to monkeys.
Your obviously doing this deliberatley, and that's the second time you've resorted to insults - there's no need. I'm gonna have to flag you , sorry. But it's not the kind of thing people on Edge forums should have to put up with.
@AVA
Yeah, there's a handful of people on here that resort to insulting, usually when someone offers a valid and intelligent argument and they don't have much to respond to. (It seems to always be the PS3 owners too...) There are some people on here (Ozzman, Gyak, kenology, Ryda-for the most part, to name of few) that don't own 360s but don't have to insult 360 owners when they don't agree with them. I've nearly stopped coming to this site after dealing with it. If I didn't like the site so much I would have stopped coming a long time ago. Maybe if the PS3 was doing better they wouldn't get so bent out of shape? If the PS3 had some flaw and was breaking, I wouldn't care as it wouldn't be affecting my gaming on my 360.
Just ignore them , there are millions of people like that on youtube - it's just for attention , so yeah , ignore 'em.
I think the PS3's had some pretty decent games - with more to come next year (Yakuza 3's the one for me!)
I'm not sure if it's the popularity of a consoles that's the sole factor (but it helps) - I think some people just like to complain!
Edge is a great site, no point giving up on it because of other people's comments - especially when you know they say these things to wind people up.
They can express themselves if they want, but you don't have to value their opinion or waste your time replying to them. Don't let 'em get to you!!!
@Nick
Couldn't agree more, valid and reasoned argument means nothing to these people, and PS3 fanboyism is now rife on what used to be an interesting and informative forum. It's a great shame because Edge was once a great place to discuss our hobby in an intelligent manner with a broad spectrum of gamers but i guess this is the way it's going to be from now on.
@Fanboys, do you think you might be able to try to raise your game above the level childish ranting and insults, perhaps providing some backup to your discourse or giving a calm, reasoned and therefore persuasive argument. Seriously, you're letting the side down for all PS3 owners with this type of nonsense.
We all knew where Wall_E was coming from except AVA. No surprises there then.
The document shows known issues and known solutions to the disc-scratching phenomenon.
So Msoft could have idiot-proofed the 360, against console-moving idiots, before its release...
But they didn't. Hence the law suit/s.
Just the other day my house caught fire and my copy of Far Cry 2 got melted down, while INSIDE my Xbox360! I am now involved in a lawsuit with Microsoft AND Battersea Dogs & Cats Home. Microsoft did not let me know that their product was not fire-proof. Turns out my cat wasn’t fire-proof either.
There should be some indignation -- a small bit of foam in the right place prevents any problems whatsoever.
I'm pretty sure this happens to every console. People are just looking for ways to get money.
The sticker obviously needs to be more clear
"Morons: Putting your console vertical is a marketing gimmick, it makes heat dissipation less efficient and putting games in harder. If you move your console with the disc spinning over 1000 RPM, it's going to scratch. Duh"
Disc-scratching aside, I'd like to see some data that supports the claim that vertical orientation makes heat dissipation less efficient. I'm interested because every one of my friends who bought a launch system had theirs horizontally oriented. Each one of them got RRoD. I have a launch system that's remained vertical since I bought it and have had no issues so far. I'd like to figure out if it's purely coincidence, or if there's something to it.
I've moved my 360 while a disc was spinning and I heard the laser head strike - it's a very distinctive noise.
It didn't harm either my disc or the 360 in any way, but had I moved it more violently or not stopped when I heard that noise, I could imagine getting a nice ring or scratch in my disc.
The GameCube and PS1 were both designed to be able to be moved a bit while the disc was spinning, but the PS2, Xbox1, PS3, Wii and X360 are all more sensitive bits of equipemnt that don't handle movement while spinning discs well.
I suspect the earlier consoles were a little more robust when being moved because of the lower speed at which the disk was spun, these days moving a console mid read seems like asking for trouble.
I don't belive this is a serious problem with the Xbox360. Out of personal and aquaintance's experience I have never had nor heard of such a happening as a terminally scratched disc due to the console alone. I say "alone" because, if the xbox is moved while the disc is playing, then you're just asking for trouble. And actually, if anyone would care to give most of the CD, DVD etc, disc playing machines they have around a bit of a shake while they are playing, then you will probably end up with a bit of a spyrograph-ish disc. Would be nice if they didn't though.
If you are moronic enough to move the system while it is on you deserve scratched discs. Try the same thing with a PS3 or any DVD player and see what happens.
Dude.
I bought my friend a 360 game for his b-day (with my money yes I'm nice like that) .....(it was burnout paradise btw)
the 360 was standing vertical and it got knocked over...scratched the disc....can't play that game ever again =\.
So I suppose you're arguing that this is the owner's fault? If so, how would you explain the fact that no other disc-based gaming console or piece of consumer electronics equipment, of which there have been quite a few over the year, has ever been afflicted by this type of problem? Did people just start moving these machines around while they were active in the last two years? Or do they move only their XBox 360s for some reason? Your logic is hard to follow.
Exactly - If you look at ANY piece of computing equipment in the last ten years they probably carry a warning somewhere saying 'don't move it'. Hell, I had a Powerbook that carried the warning 'Don't move the laptop while it is switched on' Let alone with a disc in. If I'd have taken that warning seriously I'd have never got any work done.
Just because they're covered their backs with small print doesn't mean the product isn't flawed...
Well, it could just as easily be accidental - but if you're warned not to move the console whilst the disc is spinning - but do so anyway - then yeah, it is owner's/ whoever's moving the consoles fault if something happens.
Scratched discs have only ever really been a problem in the past if ,for example, your console was accidentally dropped/fell off the table.
Nowdays - thanks to vertically standing consoles - knocking them over is more likely then before, the damage recieved is greater because of the higher speed disc drives .
The x360 has the fastest disc drive - so a nasty knock to a faster spinning disc equals more damage.
That's why it comes with a warning.
So it's probably best to keep it horizontal, especially if you have little kids/pets in the house who could knock it over. But apart from that - treat it like a normal console - as I do mine , and you won't have a problem.