Network now...NEWS
Sega: “We Can Take More Risks On The Wii”
Sega president Mike Hayes says the publisher will continue to take risks on the Wii by releasing core titles for the platform.
Hayes, who was recently promoted to president and COO of both Sega Europe and America, believes that the sheer size of the Wii install base means that there’s an audience for titles like MadWorld and The Conduit, even if early sales figures don’t necessarily back up his theory.
“What we can say is that we’ll still do mature games for the Wii market because with an install base of some 34 million in Europe and America (maybe half of whom don’t own Xbox 360s and PS3s)…. So even if you took half of those where they’re not into those (core) games, you’ve still got eight million consumers to go for,” he told Wired.
“So I think the sheer scale of the Wii allows a shooter, or a mature game, to be a niche but a successful niche. And because the development costs can be less on Wii, that means you can sell less to be successful… We can take more risk on the Wii… You’ll see more games in that genre coming from us.
“… Sega would be extremely arrogant to have a title that didn’t do as well as we thought on a platform and then say, ‘Those kind of games don’t sell on that platform’ … MadWorld sales were very disappointing, but was that to do with the platform? Was it that people didn’t like the art style? Or that people didn’t like the way the game played through? It could be many things, which we’re obviously researching.”
Denise Kaigler, Nintendo of America’s vice president of corporate affairs, said recently that she was unsure why third party Wii titles aimed at core gamers are struggling at retail, adding that she hoped sales would pick up over time.
Contact Us / About Us / Advertise With Us / BeltwayBlips / TechBlips / MassiveBlips / GamerBlips / FAQ
Subscribe To Edge Magazine / Corrections / Terms & Conditions / Privacy Policy
Copyright 2006 - 2009 Future Publishing Limited, Beauford Court 30 Monmouth Street Bath, UK BA1 2BW
England and Wales company registration number 2008885
Subscribe To Edge Magazine / Corrections / Terms & Conditions / Privacy Policy
Copyright 2006 - 2009 Future Publishing Limited, Beauford Court 30 Monmouth Street Bath, UK BA1 2BW
England and Wales company registration number 2008885
Madworld didn't sell that well because it wasn't that good. The few clips that I saw lured me into wanting to buy it but I waited for a major price drop. 'House Of The Dead: Overkill' is a far better SEGA game although I'm still waiting for a SEGA classic. Release Shenmue on the Wii please!
Shenmue on Wii anyone???
Shenmue 3 on Wii, i LIKE it! i dont care if it was realised on 360 and ps3 with the most advanced graphics engine available, Controlling Ryu Hazuki's arm when interacting with objects is begging for Wiimote!
Great news Sega, bring it on. I bought Mad World and it was okay, but not a classic by any stretch of the imagination. I'm very encouraged by this news. I'm just waiting for a developer to do a game for the Wii exactly like the swordplay 'showdown' section of Wii Sports Resort but with grittier graphics and blood. Or a lightsaber game... c'mon, you know it'll sell.
Between the lower development costs and a longer shelf life for games and the Wii have an ass load of customers he's right.
Nintendo's business model is superior to the rest. The fanboys are just upset that they don't have sales numbers on day one to blow their load about with the way Wii games sell.
The fanboys are upset that Nintendo's not making good games for them anymore.
Nobody gives a fuck about sales numbers.
I see a lot of xbots who love to brag about their tie-in ratios, how many more units they've sold over sony, etc.
It's probably a game for them and who can blame them for making up games to entertain themselves. There are so many space marine games and WWII shooters you can play before you get bored.
Nah, people still care about sales numbers A LOT. Only Sony fans claim they don't care about sales all of a sudden... :)
But yeah, we're all posting on this story due to sales numbers, the comments section will be filled later today on NPD stories due to sales numbers, and all of us will be looking to see how certain games perform sales-wise later this year.
So that blanket statement isn't true at all.
I was a GameCube guy last gen, and I didn't care about them back then, either. I hate gamers who do; it's because of this shit that no one ever talks about the games themselves.
I'd have thought forumgoers on Edge, a magazine with tons of in-depth features about the artistry of games rather than the meaningless business aspect, would understand that.
edge-online.com combined with next-gen.biz (which was/is owned by the same publisher and would have content from Edge every so often, and next-gen.biz still exists as an alias for edge-online.com), not too long ago, I think it's been about a year. That site largely took on the perspective of the business/industry side, and it continues with edge-online.com.
So, chatting about sales numbers and such, is something that is very much status quo.
He's kind of right. Everyone thinks people don't buy third party games on the Wii but I don't think Sega's games sell all that well anyway. Their only real hit of this generation is Mario & Sonic Olympics. They don't have a million seller on the other consoles cos really, they've not made anything that good. I'm not saying Mario & Sonic is either but you can see the appeal of that game.
People have got it in their heads that no one buys Wii third party games yet if you look the 360's top sellers, apart from the gash trio of Halo 3 and both Gears of War games, the only reaslly *big* sellers are GTA and the duo of Call of Duty crap. You get some games of 2 million sales but don't forget that 360 games cost a lot more to make than Wii games. Its worse for the the PS3. Its like no one buys games for that machine and except for the odd title or two, its mainly Sony published games that have sold the best on that system. So far Sega to make games on those system ARE a bigger risk due to the higher costs.
It is sad that games like MadWorld and THOTD Overkill haven't sold more but while they're fun games, they're not truly amazing either. The Conduit on the other hand, is total cack and deserves to flop after all the (misled) hype it got
look like Sega's still in the denial phase
Quite clearly you're in denial. Nintendo is making a load of money off the a new business model and the old model will be out on its ass eventually.
Shame you're not even mature enough to admit that Nintendo is clearly the king of this generation.
Jesus, man. Sega says they can be risky. Wily says that's not true. Then you come in and confirm Wily's statement by saying Nintendo's succeeding by not being risky.
And for god's sake, success is quality games, not sales numbers.
No where did I say that. You read into that. Everything Nintendo has done, for the most part, has been risky when compared to old standards and saying they're ignoring the old way is in now way implying that they're avoiding risk.
Learn2Read.
When the Gamecube didn't work was Nintendo in denial? Should they have stopped trying to make a console more appealing to casual gamers? When you done your homework and know there is opportunity somewhere you keep trying and trying, I don't mean trying as until you are broken but Madworld was the first game Sega released to try on this theory so at least a couple more game is worth a shot.
Nintendo would've been in denial if they had continued to try to compete with Sony & MS for core gamers, they realized they couldn't, they changed their strategy, moved on and now they're reaping the rewards
Sega's core gamer experiment has failed, but instead of learning from the results like Nintendo did, they've decided to run even more experiments hoping that it will yield different results
That's the biggest nonsense, The Wii is the culmination of a strategy that began with the Gamecube, Satoru Iwata has stated that so many times, Nintendo began their gamble or casual gamers last generation thats why the Gamecube looked like a lunch box, was purple from the beginning and was referred so many times as a toy box.
Nintendo did continue in "denial" as you called it and moved even more in that same direction and that's when it became the king of this generation. By your theory Nintendo should have stopped with the Gamecube and go back to the same hardcore type of hardware.
Sega has only developed no more than TWO games aimed at the hardcore and when they didn't sell well they should stop?? Then why is EA bringing Dead Space to the Wii and Nintendo working with Tecmo to bring a new Metroid aimed at the hardcore??
Sega's core gamer experiment failde and they didn't learned anything? He clearly stated that many factors like the art style were taken into account as to why it didn't work so next core game will be a lot different from Mad World, it shouldn't take a genius to see that the result could be different, this is video games we are talking about just look at all the artistic games that keep showing up, not just because some of them fail means that its a genre that should be abandoned.
Thank you very much Mr. Hayes and SEGA for your support to the Wii, I'm a hardcore gamer and I love your Mature Hardcore Games, I have all the three: The Conduit, Madworld and HOD: Overkill. And if you continue to deliver more great games to the Wii, I will support you; I promise. I have the money to purchase a xbox360 or a ps3, but simply I don't like it and I hate these consoles, becose Microsoft and Sony claim these consoles are next-gen, but only in the graphics department, while the Wii is a true next-gen in the controls and gameplay. That's more important for me, also the Wii with huge development effort can output graphics near the xbox360/ps3 quality. That is demostrated in some multiplatform games tha are better on the Wii than the xbox360/ps3 versions. About The Conduit, some gamers saw it can't be compared to the shooters on the other consoles, but the controls are far better than these consoles, is question to put more effort improving the game levels, gameplay mechanics, AI, art style, history and other things, etc... To match up the shooters games of other consoles, I hope HV Software will do that by the time; who knows probably The Grinder or Gladiator, they become better and better improving the Wii development. The hardcore audience is there, the reason why these titles don't sell well is becose the Economy down turn, the sales in the Wii market are slow and the most important point; you need to be very smart in your strategy to publish the game and try to attract and convice a hardcore crown that thinks the hardcore games on the Wii are awful and them they don't buy it. You need to change their mains, delivering QUALITY GAMES.
Unfortunately, a slower processor & lowered RAM means you can not have better A.I., more complex level design, or art style - the latter directly related to graphics hardware potential.
I might agree that the Wii has the potential to have games with better "history", if I knew what that means.
In some respects,your right,but some how missing something...The Wii has more ram than the original xbox,is good deal more powerfull than the xbox(even without dedicated pixel/vertex shader,its tev unit is comparable) and as far as i could tell,360's Halo 3 Ai was no better than Halo2 on original Xbox soo,provided the developers use the power on tap to create a ai routine that requires such power, ai wont "be beter" just because it is being run on supeirior hardware.There is no reason why Wii cant have Halo 2 / 3 Ai, and graphics better than resident evil 4.That would be satisfactory for me.Just to see that developers have enough passion to put love into their craft rather than cashing in pushing out shovelware.
Uhhh, all this means is that Halo 3 had bad AI. So bad it could fit in a Wii game.
NO, you must be kidding! The Halo Ai was totally cool.The fact that it wasnt improved means(to me) that the most realistic exppresion was already realised on the original xbox.I have a analogy which may clarify AI limitations/complications. 1 + 1 = 2 will always equal 2 regardless of the the platform. Now contary to popular belief,the limiting factor regarding AI is NOT the hardware(to date,have you heard of a AI routine that COULD NOT be worked on a particular platform? NO) but rather, the programmers ability to code something that resembles actual thought...it is a incredibly abstract concept to get ones head around...i mean what is intelligence? Untill we can understand conclusively what conciousness is, awareness and reasons behind self preservavation ect, how can a programer even on paper with no limitations of proccessor power or memory, write a algorithym that can accurately convey thought? You see, in games, That isnt the goal, the goal is to try and cover all variables in a particular game, and design a routine that can react in a convincing way to give the illusion of AI. i would stake my manhood on this fact....There is not one games AI out there that couldnt be used fully as intended by the programmer on the least powerful console of last gen which would negativly affect graphical/audio performance ,that is being used on todays most powerfull home pc. Cross check my claims, please. About a year ago,after a particulary long and heated debate about this very point(i was of the opinion that hardware was the limiting factor...i was devastatingly crushed by my own research) i was proven wrong by my own efforts to strengthen my own arguments.Graphics and sound are not compremised because of AI because there really isnt that much of a "footprint" at all on system performance From AI(the trend was to let the cpu handle the AI,but now graphics cards tend to handle them directcly...this fact must speak volumes to you)
The inherent problem is, if Halo 3's A.I. matches the original Xbox, it has room to evolve; while the Wii will hit a "ceiling" of sorts. The faster the processor, the more complex the algorithms can be achieved.
Simplifying - if a processor can handle move left/right during attack, a faster processor can add things like cover/crouch/assistance, etc.
More RAM attributes a larger, more complicated world; with realistic physics & effects adding dimension. SD resolution places one form of artistic expression, cell-shading, severely off-balanced. Higher pixel density leads directly to smaller overdraw areas in inking effects. Developers aren't single entities. Even if designers pour their love into the Wii, artists, musicians, & modelers - very much a part of the development process, must compromise their works to accommodate the limitations. Miyamoto himself admitted to dropping gaming features in Mario due to hardware inferiority. So even issues beyond art exist.
With the Mario Galaxy issue as a precedent, it's hard to argue that design can defeat a definite hardware limitation. As innovative as the Wii is, this is a clear case of Nintendo creating a margin-rich device at the expense of design, not a showcase for it.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!! Can this be real? Can this be true? What!?!?! This is truly the rarest of curiosities. Amazing.
I think maybe the Nintendo version of Kim Naroz has risen.
Either you're being very sarcastic, or you are very ignorant as to how better technical specs translate into a lot more than "better graphics".
I have the money to purchase a xbox360 or a ps3, but simply I don't like it and I hate these consoles, becose Microsoft and Sony claim these consoles are next-gen, but only in the graphics department, while the Wii is a true next-gen in the controls and gameplay.
You're only kidding yourself if you actually believe this.
That's more important for me, also the Wii with huge development effort can output graphics near the xbox360/ps3 quality. That is demostrated in some multiplatform games tha are better on the Wii than the xbox360/ps3 versions.
You're only kidding yourself if you actually believe this.
Why must he be kidding him self to believe his statement? Because of the supposed "insane pixel fill rate" the Wii can do all of the graphical routines(ok not all of them,being some of them rely on being of a particular high resolution) in SD. i have heard people in game shops after seeing say,Okami on the Wii ask shop assistants if that particular game was being run on a 360....Now granted,ignorance was behind their statement,but artistic of expression from capcom threw them off guard.(this is a game originaly developed for the ps2 by the way and had the graphics slightly improved for the Wii) Look at the conduit.(forget about the lame gameplay just for now)It seems that high voltage was trying to get high polygon models with allot of lighting effects and high quality textures..neglecting....yes you guessed it ARTISTIC direction,buildings looking bland,generic enermies, just about every thing looks unimaginative.And thats a REAL pity.With high voltage want to push the hardware combined with say capcoms imagination,how nice would it have been?(to look at)
You nailed it with Okami; I haven't played it on the Wii, but it looked awesome on the PS2 because of the art direction and shading. If they wanted to do it, a PS3 or 360 port would look better. There's no magic, a Wii game just isn't capable of looking as good as HD console games.
This statement seems half really honest, half like Nintendo is subsidizing their risks.
Wow! Nintendo can get their own third parties to do damage control?
Sega doesn't know why core games "tank" at retail. Nintendo doesn't know why core games "tank" at retail. When Nintendo launched the Wii, they claimed to be after a new audience. Looking at the grossly inflated console numbers of this generation, it looks like they hit that audience. Nintendo, themselves, even touted they had reached a different install base then before.
How is this so confusing? People who had never bought a gaming console before, because they didn't like the games, don't buy titles that mimic the themes that they have systematically rejected for two decades. Sega is only seeing numbers, and maybe there's some crossover. The fact remains that most people who play Woman's Murder Club don't play Gears of War.
It's like saying, "This new bikini line is doing great in the city, but there's a whole untapped market of orthodox Muslims 20 miles south." It's not going to work. Which is neither good nor bad. It just is.
Do you honestly believe that all the Wii users are casual gamers? How many of the 50+ millions of Wii gamers you think are casual vs the hardcore? Even if its only a 30% hardcore and 70% casual that leaves you with 15+ million hardcore gamers that own a Wii and that want to play mature titles like Gears of War so Sega is looking at it like a great niche market, more than half the users of the PS3, with very little competition since most Wii games are for "casual" gamers, and a much smaller development compared to the PS3 and 360.
Remember Factor 5? Those people that made some cool hardcore titles on the Gamecube like Rogue Squadron, last time I hear they went belly up for going exclusive on the PS3 with the incredible expensive and totally hardcore game Lair. Its almost a sure bet that they would be still around if they had developed the game for the Wii, even if not successful the development costs wouldn't have been as high and they could have at least another shot.
Remember Factor 5? Those people that made some cool hardcore titles on the Gamecube like Rogue Squadron.
Rogue Squadron was shit and pretty fucking far from "hardcore", it's Star Wars, you can't get anymore mainstream if you tried! Why do you think it was a launch title for the system all those years ago?!
opinions are like arse holes,every has one,though i always find it "novel" when some one uses their arse hole to express their opinions, kinda give them the value of a fart,only the one who dealt it can appreciate it!How can you expect to be taken seriously if you dont take the time to try and give a intelegable explanation as to why it is a shit game?Whats that? cause its "a launch title for the system all those years ago" I guess that means Super mario world,sonic the hedgehog and halo, are all by your reasoning "shit" And did you try and get a silver medal not even to speak of a gold medal on the game...i may not be the greatest gamer,but i do know a few peeps who eat sleep and live to play,and they struggled to get a few golds the game had to offer.Man,its hard core.But here we go again,its mainstream so it cant be hardcore?Doctor if you please,let me have what this dude is taking NOT!lol Really though,Super mario the lost levels,robocop 3 are not hardcore?their what i would call "mainstream" games but it is their difficulty that (to me and a few other out there) determines their "hardcore" status,what is it for you that determines so?Lack of market penetration?Lack of units produced?(rarity) help me out and give us a clue to your reasonings, or rather..flesh them out.
It was hardcore because it was a damn tough game (especially Rogue Leader). But also because it was actually good.
What your number breakdown doesn't take into account, is how many of the "core" gamers that own a Wii, also own a 360 and/or a PS3. In that situation 360/PS3 games compete for attention with the more "core" targeted Wii games. When you have the choice between Halo 3/Gears/Killzone 2 or the Conduit for your Sci-fi space marine game needs, it's pretty clear what side of the coin is going to look more appealing. Or if you look at Ninja Gaiden 2/Devil May Cry 4/Heavenly Sword vs Madworld, if a "core" gamer has the option between all of these games, which one are they most likely to choose? The question doesn't even need to be asked, since sales wise, Madworld is in dead last. I think it's more accurate to describe the untapped market Sega is realistically going for are the "core" gamers who only own a Wii, and none of the other current gen consoles, and I don't think there's a massive number that fit that profile.
Lair could've worked, but Factor 5 made the mistake of relying on the Six-Axis as the only control option when the game was released, and it got torn up in every single review. It's more accurate to attribute a design decision (not sure if there was pressure from Sony to give no choice in controls at launch) to their down fall. Especially since Sony published Lair. Making an initially unplayable game probably had more to do with the studio crashing and burning and not being able to secure funding for another project.
I wonder how quickly Sega will flip their opinion if Bayoneta sells well. IMO, Sega is better served not investing in 360/PS3 games that aren't terrible (i.e. Ironman, and Golden Axe: Beast Rider). I find it hard to believe with their dismal sales that Madworld and Conduit are making any profits.
That's a very good point you make there and I agree mostly with you since I didn't took multiple systems owners into account, still you have to wonder from the publishers perspective how risky is to invest in a new game for the Wii (that yields a greater potential return than PS3 or 360) VS developing a game for Sony or MS when their development cost is so high (at least twice than the Wii) and the competition is bigger, just like you pointed out: Ninja Gaiden 2/Devil May Cry 4/Heavenly Sword.
KillZone 2 is an amazing game but has just sold around 800K in America and just around 1.8 Million worldwide. I think those number are great but how much money they made back from its development? There is talk that it was around $40 million US. I'm in no way trashing KZ2, all I'm trying to say is that when you look at the numbers it doesn't sound too crazy to invest in making core games on the Wii like Mad World since the cost are not that big.
It would be interesting if accurate costs for particular game's development and marketing were publicly released, then it'd be much easier to gauge what sort of sales numbers would be considered successful/profitable, break even, and a loss.
I estimate making a Wii game from scratch (not a port) probably costs a bit bellow what it cost to make XBox/PS2/GameCube games. Or I could be wrong and it's significantly lower, as the library of tools for developing games of this scale is probably huge (and already licensed if applicable), and you can probably afford to have more, software engineers and artists that might not have too much experience.
KZ2 probably wouldn't have existed the way it is if it was 1) a first party published title and 2) a title said first party pegged to showcase what can be done with their console. I'm sure they feel it was a good investment long term, as it generated a lot buzz and now that the engine ground work has been laid out, they can capitalize on future sequels.
With Madworld, I sort of find it hard to believe that game broke even with its current sales numbers. At least visually it looked like a lot of time and attention went into it, and I'd imagine it wasn't the cheapest Wii game to develop.
I don't believe they're all causal. I said there's crossover, but to assume the 50 million Wii users means 50 million potential customers is ludicrous.
They say the install base has greater potential, but that would have to suggest the core Wii market exceeded the 23-30 million Xbox or PS3, (primarily core), market. The Gamecube wasn't looking for new customers, which is why the Wii marketing strategy was started in the first place. If Nintendo isn't putting a large focus on core games this generation, then it stands to reason that the market they've seeded isn't attracted to those games.
Nintendo is very good at engaging games that follow their own parameters. Which is why Factor 5, like Rare, have lost focus recently now that they aren't under the the big N-Umbrella.