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Shining Light on the Red Ring
By Kris Graft
September 8, 2008
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“It turned out in the end that this was all going too far, too fast. They were adding too many features after things were locked down. That incremental feature adding just made it fragile.”
Just when Microsoft thought the "Red Ring of Death" Xbox 360 failure fiasco was completely in the rearview, a new report from Xbox guru and journalist Dean Takahashi has detailed what led to the infamous "RROD."
Takahashi, who also wrote the book "The Xbox 360 Uncloaked" and currently writes for VentureBeat.com, said there were several precursors to unacceptable hardware failure rates prior to Xbox 360's November 2005 launch.
An anonymous Microsoft engineer reportedly insisted in August 2005 that Xbox 360 manufacturers shut down their lines in order to address yields that were an "abysmal" 68 percent (i.e., 68 out of 100 machines failed).
Takahashi admitted that very low yields are normal at first, but the reaction time to bring the yields up was slow. The company did not shut down the lines to address the engineer's quality concerns, Takahashi said.
About three months before the launch of Xbox 360, team members reported "overheating graphics chip, cracking heat sinks, cosmetic issues with the hard disk drive and the front of the box, under-performing graphics memory chips from Infineon (now Qimonda), a problem with the DVD drive, and other things," according to the report.
Lack of air flow into the Xbox 360 became a growing problem. The console reportedly suffered from feature creep, as a hard drive and wireless controller components blocked air in an already cramped case. (Hence the holes poked in the edges of console.)
“It turned out in the end that this was all going too far, too fast,” an anonymous source stated. “They were adding too many features after things were locked down. That incremental feature adding just made it fragile.”
As widely reported, Microsoft in July 2007 announced a $1.15 billion write-off that addressed Xbox 360 failures due to the "Red Ring of Death."
The company apparently isn't happy with Takahashi's new story. He asked the software giant to confirm several facts in the report, but Microsoft stated, "This topic has already been covered extensively in the media. This new story repeats old information, and contains rumors and innuendo from anonymous sources, attempting to create a new sensational angle, and is highly irresponsible.”
Make sure to read the rest of the lengthy report, which Takahashi considers the final chapter in his Xbox 360 book.
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Putting all fanboy-ism aside for awhile. The xbox 360 simply put is a good console which was pushed out too early in the R&D phase. Thats it. The reason, fanboys, that Microsoft will even come in second this generation is because they had the gall to put thier product out there first and build their lead.
You cant have it both ways. Either or had to give. So what if they sacrificed quality and are hemorrhaging cash due to repairs? Its their prerogative. And remind me if I'm wrong but haven't we all benefited from this move? Better games and innovative hardware makes this gen the best in the industry and the big M lead the way. I've had an Xbox 360 before it scratched up my game and subsequently red ringed. Otherwise it was an awesome console. No different than the PS3 or the slightly less powerful but still entertaining Wii..
Ditch the fanboyism kidda's we're not in junior high anymore.
Ok gyak, you asked, the motherboard on the 360 has the following revisions;
Xenon - The original Xbox 360 configuration used in the initial Premium and Core machines released in the end of November 2005.
Zephyr -first revision with HDMI connector and fixed the RRoD problem caused by the inadequate GPU cooling on Xenon boards.
Falcon -Starting September 2007 the newest Xbox 360 Premium machines shipped with the Falcon board.
And coming soon... Jasper- will be released in late 2008 to introduce the 65 nm GPU and reduce the cost and power usage further.
Also if you still think that the RROD is a problem then consider the Opus revision -this is an intermediate motherboard with 65 nm CPU and 90 nm GPU, new coolers, but no HDMI. It is now used in Xenon chassis for repairs and RRoD affected machines.
So i think you'll see i'm not just talking about a bigger heat sink and that M$ have good reason to see this as "attempting to create a new sensational angle".
Finally i just like to say to ArronC07 that the post attacking NickgamertagO1 comes across as a little sad he called someone an idiot, which was a little out of order, but seriously mate, we're all on this forum because we're fans of gaming so why shouldn't he defend the 360 (it would be a rather dull forum without debate), i think it may be you who's throwing a strop.
I'm not attacking him, I just calling him on his fanboy nonsense. It's tedious.
nolim, thanks for the elaboration, the "heatsink" thing was a trap actually; I knew you would enumerate all these processor names. Sorry about that.
My point still stands, though. While all looks beautiful on paper, the sad thruth is that the RROD hasn't gone away and problem lies elsewhere. Just read the whole article (all of its pages), he makes the very same list. Oh, and I'm speaking of personal experience too. Brand new 360s drop like flies, working as intended. Then they go to the big refurb pool and emerge as someone else's old model, tweaked here and there, ready to die again. Maybe (maybe) when they totally reengineer the box (changing its whole structure, picking up quality parts, and testing the hell out of it) then we speak. Until then I won't throw more money to MS -- they tricked me one time this gen, next time I'll be careful --, gonna spend that money on my DS / PS3 games instead.
What's with all these people providing facts in their posts today??? Seriously though, nice post. That must have taken a bit to research those dates. I do remember reading about each and everyone one of those at one point. I know my wife's 360 has one of the newer main cpus, just not sure which one. My elite sounds like a Jet Engine, and my wife's is as quite as can be. I'm sure my first gen elite will die soon, but her xbox seems pretty rock solid.
And thanks by the way. I probably was a bit hasty with that comment, could have gone without it.
honestly ppl u can call me a sony fanboy actually i am a sony fanboy heres why. I know when i buy a sony console it will last at doing wut it is built to do not break in a month i can see getting the random messed up system but come on 33% also I KNOW that when its next predecessor comes out they will continue to support the old one hey anyone know when the last xbox game came out 130 diff games still goin to ps2 this year id say thats taking care of your customers not just expecting them to jump to the next system like xbox will do in 1 to 2 years so yeah im a loyal sony fan but only bc theyve been loyal to me since ive had the ps1 ive never had to worry about "well it feels a little hot maybe i should let it rest a couple hrs or it might break" tell me thats not ridiculous yeah it has some good games but only cause they shell out money like its goin outta style the point is the systems not reliable the companys not reliable they rushed it out the door just to make a buck with no care for the ppl buying there product now to invest time and money into somthing like that is absolutely ridiculous and stupid tell me how it even makes sense and while yur at it prove me wrong everything i said here is completely true you cant argue w facts so why try.
I have to agree with Kenology on this one, i don't think anyone is blaming Edge for reporting the story, after all they do start by saying "Just when Microsoft thought the Red Ring of Death Xbox 360 failure fiasco was completely in the rearview", it's just very convenient for Sony that this story happens to appear now. The RROD was a terrible blunder for M$ but to still be talking about it so long after it was fixed with hardware revision and given a 3 year Guarantee seems a little too coincidental, and lets face facts, it's not like Sony are above that type of thing.
You said it for the second time , so you seem to be pretty confident. Enlighten me please, when was the 360 fixed exactly? Larger heatsinks don't count as "revision" in my book, only a cheap "slim" 360 (see the PS2 revision last gen) would do the trick.
As for Sony's old sins, you're probably right, they did some very clever things in their time.
But 68% is 68%, you know. For me it's insulting.
There is one reason why this story is still in the news: Microsoft. Not Sony, not Nintendo. It's Microsoft's fault for not doing enough to sort it out, it's Microsoft's fault for releasing a hunk of junk in the first place. It really is that simple.
This isnt really news at all everyone knows that the xbox 360 is a rushed piece of junk i know ppl on there 4th system which is ridiculous to say the least. It makes me laugh when xbox fanboys rant about there "awsome" system when at the back of there minds they know theyve had 3 or 4 of them wut a joke ive had 1 ps3 for goin on 3 yrs and it works the same as when i first bought it better actually w all the upgrades the only reason xbox has a slight lead on sony is bc of there year head start also theyve counted in there refurbs as systems sold so if thats how a company wins then u xbots can keep yur loud undependable brick.
Shouldn't have called you an idiot. Your post is still full of holes the size of the grand canyon, but I could have commented without the insult. Later,
@rydamgw
You're an idiot. Its a great system capability-wise. It is not the most reliable, but after almost 3 years (I have actually had my system for almost 3 years unlke you with your 3 year PS3) I've only had 1 die, so I've gone 18 days since the 360's launch without the system due to repair. I think after 900 days, 18 days without it is bearable (and it was completely free to get it fixed). Their lead is more than slight (espcially in the US where it has over a 5 million console lead, and ironically enough, the 360 has sold more xboxs in the US than Sony has sold PS3s in the US since PS3's launch). MS has actually INCREASED their US lead on the PS3 since the PS3 has been out. Funny if you ask me. I'm not an Xbot, I just like to deal with facts, instead of misguided attempts at competence.
Yet calling someone an idiot and acting like a spoilt fanboy isn't really doing your argument that you are level headed any good, maybe you'd be better off throwing your teenage strop to gamespot? Also your "facts" are mostly subjective conjecture. "I also love the I've only had one die on me" great argument there tiger.
@ArronC07
Normally I don't resort to that, but in this case I had to. It was one of the least intelligent things I've read in a long time. It’s amazing how much people care so much about other people's console preference that they make names up for them (xbot?) what the hell does that even mean? Anyway, no, they are not subjective conjecture. Look up NPD bro, since launch the 360 has outsold the PS3 in total hardware sold since November of 2006 (in the US). Just because the PS3 beat the 360 a few months out of this year and mostly by a small margin doesn't make up for the other 20 months or so the 360 beat them. I could scrounge up the links for you, but I don't need to. I could care less if you believe me, cause I don't know you, but its the facts. I'm throwing around facts, not "strop" (what the fuck is strop any way?). My point about only having one die was that yes, it isn't the most reliable system, but if I only have to go 18 days without it during repair ONE time, then I'll put up with that for the otherwise awesome experience. And don't get on your high horse and act like you never call people names, ooh, you pointed out that I called someone a name, you must be the most intelligent and mature person on these forums, have me whipped for my insolence.
Ok, after I thought about it, proving an arrogant individual wrong just sounded too good, so here goes.
http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/NPD_Seventh_generation (the link doesn't include July's numbers, I so went ahead and added those in for you)
Microsoft has sold 7,773,600 (that’s 7.77 million) 360s in the US since PS3’s launch.
Sony has sold 5,078,306 (that’s 5.07 million) PS3s in the US since its launch.
Not conjecture.
So, looks like we both learned something today. I found out what conjecture means (speculation, assumption, etc…, still working on strop though) and you found out you’re not always right. Why don’t you look up your facts first next time. Great argument there tiger. (that last sentence was a fragment sentence, but I’m being rebellious).
I think what makes you seem really biased is the fact you think your experience equates everyone else's. My first 360 died the third week of June in 07. It was a month before a replacement arrived (and not my my unit refurbished). When I connected it, it was DOA. Skip ahead three weeks and I finally had a working console, which was good because I was moving to Europe in a few weeks, so I was starting to get concerned as to whether it would arrive at all. All in all, I am on my third console, but it could have been higher since the last one only got used about two days before it was put in storage. That was basically two months of summer 07 that I had no console. I only know one 360 owner on his first console. At the time of my problems, I had a friend still on her first, but in September, just in time for Halo 3, her's died. She is now on her 4th. And all that was between September and December.
In summary, your experience with one dead console which came and went in 18 days is the exception rather than the rule.
Brian
www.brianwoods.com
What a classic display of blatant fanboyism- talk about fighting for the cause! I'll let you into a secret (well two actually) I count the whole world and not just North America when looking at console success and because I'm an adult with a job I can afford to own all the consoles; this allows me to be a little more objective about matters than you- someone who obviously owns just a 360 (and don't try to make out that you own a PS3 either because people with your level of emotional investment in a platform only own the one). Oh and you need to get a sense of perspective here, what you are so passionate about is a games console, not a girl friend or boy friend or your child or your parents, it's a piece of consumer electronics. It's not the second coming of Christ or Michael Jackson doing the moonwalk for Pepsi, it also doesn't cure cancer. You should be having the same level of emotional attachment to it as you would a DVD player or a washing machine or maybe even vacuum cleaner.
Going by NPD's figures (because figures are always fun *yawn*) It's not looking so great for the 360 this year is it? I also love how you ignore the Wii as well because its well and truly kicking both the PS3 and the 360 in the nuts.
I only added that last bit to watch you fly off into another display of fanboy angst.
Please, continue- it's funny.
Me,
"Their lead is more than slight (especially in the US where it has over a 5 million console lead, and ironically enough, the 360 has sold more xboxs in the US than Sony has sold PS3s in the US since PS3's launch)."
You,
"Also your "facts" are mostly subjective conjecture."
You again,
"I'll let you into a secret (well two actually) I count the whole world and not just North America when looking at console success"
It’s great that YOU like the count the whole world, but in my post, I WASN'T. If you want to reply to a post where someone specifically refers to US sales and you say that the person isn't using facts, just subjective conjecture, then when they prove they were facts, you say you count the whole world? You don't make sense bro.
You,
"Going by NPD's figures (because figures are always fun *yawn*)”
Yeah, what fun are facts? Maybe I should go with conjecture because that obviously is much more fun right? Oh wait, you told me not to do that either. Make up your mind.
I own a 360 and Wii. Don't own a PS3 only because I'm waiting for something worth buying a PS3 for. Nothing against it, just not enough games that interest me. Maybe Resistance 2...
Your reply dripped with desperation (I don't get worked up about internet threads, sorry to disappoint). It’s ok to be wrong once in a while, and judging by your reply, you're not used to it.
I have edited this post as it included a somewhat unnecessary comment. Sorry to double post.
Don't get worked up by internet threads? Hmmmmm that's patently not true is it?
It's also fairly obvious that you don't own a PS3.
I'm amazed that you've had a PS3 for longer than it's been out. Also calling people an XBOT doesn't really make you look like someone who is entering this with the ability to use objectivity or make you look any less of a fanboy.
Did anyone honestly think this was anything other than MS releasing junk hardware straight away just to be first on the market?
Interesting timing... this article. MS announces a massive price drop, and suddenly, this article is published. I'm just sayin'... that's all!
Are you trying to say that Edge, the Magazine that gave "Halo 3" a 10 and devoted issue 192 (September 08) to the XBOX LIVE re-launch is under the pay of Sony?
Get a grip mate. Maybe this is news because MS have shown themselves to be a bit incompetent and the problem is still happening and is therefore relevant?
No, dude! WTF!! This has nothing to do with Edge! I'm talking about Takahashi from Xbox guru - which is clearly the source listed in the article, assuming you read it. If you did read it, why would you assume I'm talking about Edge!?
Come on, man! Just get it! Stop reading too far into things!
Seems like they got away with the extended warranty this generation, but I'm not sure that many people will 'jump in' next time. I will definitely wait for the extended test results from the early adopters -- if they make a 360 successor at all.