Exactly. That's why I said those games can be argued to be casual. Some people may consider the GH series as casual (a lot of wii owners bought it, but didn't touch madden 09). Others, as you put, more harcdcore, and the game is set up in a way you can play either way. As far as metal gear being considered casual...I don't know about that one. Playing inaccurate representations of sports in wii play would be more pick-up-and-play than what's required in MGS4. I see your point-none-the-less.

Well games like Smash bros I can see how there'd be the hardcore, "I play in smash bros tournaments players" then there's the, "I play with my kids for fun" group. But some games are casual by nature. Brain games fall into the "casual" game type. Simple, straight-forward, pick-up-and-play. Not that they don't offer challenge, or can be played frequently, but learning how to press A to select your answer in brain age is much more simple than doing some crazy combos in Ninja Gaiden or customizing your character in Mass Effect. Some games are simple by nature, some games are more complicated, that's sorta the difference I'm talking about. Yeah, if I only play my 150+ hour character in Oblvion once in a while does that mean its now a casual game, or I'm a casual player??? And some games are clearly aimed at a different crowd than the "hard core". Whatever you want to call that crowd "casual, mainstream" whatever, that crowd exists, and those games are aimed at that audience. I don't think Konami had the same people who bought cooking mama, or wii fit in mind when they marketed Metal Gear...

I guess that could be true. I seem to recall thinking this observation to myself a few months back too. Maybe i'll have look in the archives and check to be sure.