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St. John: Consoles on the Way Out
By Tom Ivan
July 24, 2008
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"That old notion of the console wired to the big TV – its time is up"
Alex. St. John, the boss of online gaming network WildTangent, has said that the PS3, Xbox 360 and Wii will be looked back upon as the last successful generation of games consoles.
Speaking at the Casual Connect conference in Seattle, as reported by the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, St. John labeled the console market an "extremely fragile business".
“I am going to predict to you that the PS3, the Wii and the Xbox are the last generation of consoles that you either see or that anybody regards as successful in the market,” he said.
St. John made similar remarks in a recent interview with Edge, telling us, “I’m going to say something heretical now: that old notion of the console wired to the big TV – its time is up.
“Consider how laptops have changed the market. You have PCs now that can compete graphically with consoles, if not yet with 360 and PS3 then with Wii. So kids can play anywhere, or they plug in a gamepad and plug into a TV for that ‘immersive’ experience. People in our generation might cling to that idea of the console running BioShock, but laptop gaming is going to dominate the market for this next generation.
“The console era is fading rapidly because graphics are no longer the differentiator: people are looking for other things like community or new types of input.”
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when did this turn into macs vs pc's
I currently own 8 computers, 2 laptops, all the consoles and hand-helds. They each have their strength and their weaknesses, and NONE of them are future proof, and I don't think we will ever see a future proof product. The inside tag is to never ever sell something to a consumer that they don't need to replace at some time, it keeps the business model strong and going.
My personal stance as a middle-income earning person, is that I am so very tired of tweaking and upgrading my computer. What works so perfect for one PC title won't even work with with another PC title. Can you imagine if you had to Tweak your console each time you dropped in a game, and then it still not work. That is the appeal of console game, drop and play, with no tweaking. This concept was introduced many years ago for the PC but has NEVER come to total fruition. So now I spend most of my time consoling.
All my niece and nephews who are from tween-teenager are all about mobile gaming. Games on cellphone, psp, and ds. They could careless about a desktop PC. They do all their PC activities on their mobile phones. At home they all have Desktops but you will either find them on their hand-helds, or phones, or on the consoles. Emails come from their phones and rarely from the Desktops. For birthdays they want gift cards to down load things to their portable devices such as phones or i-pods, or games for their psp or ds, and yes they ask for console games as well. When I ask, don't you want anything for your PC they always say no. Heck I have even bought them things to play on their desktops like MMO games and game cards, and they want to know if it is portable, if not they never use it or rarely use it. So for them a compact portable that acts as phone, gaming, and socializing network are the type of things they are looking for, not some BULKY Laptop.
I think we are going to start seeing a BLUR of blending of technologies on all types of devices. I think it is too early to call the death of any type of device at this time, though we are seeing steps by each industry provider to ensure their longevity.
I've seen just the opposite with the PC. Like you said, they are all far more into mobile gaming, but kids growing up nowadays are far more into PC's then when people in their 20's and 30's were growing up, it's just not on the desktop, it's on laptops. The same kids, millions and millions of them on all these social sites are also playing games online, just not Crysis level games, but that's not the point. This is why laptop sales are absolutely exploding. In Asia alone, the PC is the absolute dominant platform outside mobile gaming, and by a wide margin over console gaming. Playing at gaming pubs is huge over there, basically bringing a physical social aspect to the PC that is missing largely from the US, beyond lan parties. I have to say though, I see tons of younger kids at lan parties with rigs, but it really does depend on each one's experience.
yeah, kids nowadays are more into mobile gaming than living room/bedroom based as their parents don't give a crap where they are all night and let them wander the streets stabbing each other.. ok so sorry about the knee jerk Daily Mail comment. But I think that kids are given too much freedom these days and the idea of 'staying at home with the parents' is unthinkable. If you're at home then you're not cool. I blame bad parenting for the future demise of the home console industry! ;-)
also
Alex St. John = Bill Bailey
One future, one console, one common development platform, one set of specs, one console with many developers. you mark my words... it'll happen..
Consoles themselves may not die out in the near future, but a number of start-ups are making the bet that the future will be less about the branded platform experience (Sony versus Microsoft) and more about the service. Think of it as choosing between an HBO or Showtime of games that you'll access through a generic console-like box that could be manufactured by Nintendo--or Samsung.
That's not to say this is going to happen now, but it will likely happen at some point.
The comments railing against St. John's argument read almost like a generational attack against the very notion that consoles might not exist in their current form in the future. It's what we know (and love) and therefore it can't possibly change. It's like the heartbreak over Sega and its Dreamcast all over again.
But look at the popularity of Webkinz and Club Penguin, Gaia Online and Habbo Hotel, Nexon's free-to-play library and Three Ring's Puzzle Pirates: kids are growing up playing on PCs. It's anecdotal, but I've heard from several gaming execs (particularly in the mobile space) that kids don't have a screen preference. They're so accustomed to mobile phones, laptops, PCs, handhelds and consoles that the platforms are virtually indistinguishable to them. The content is obviously different, but they're just as likely to play an N-Gage game as they are the Wii.
Hell, even Microsoft is adopting "games as a service." Instead of launching new hardware to appeal to a broader demographic, the company is simply relaunching Xbox 360 via a software update.
Consoles will probably live on for another generation or two (or three). But that doesn't mean the basic "PC is the future console" is implausible. The real reason St. John's presentation should be so polarizing is because the future he describes benefits his business--he's betting on it.
Give your crystal ball another wipe. I don't see the PC / Console cycle getting broke anytime soon. PC gaming will return to the throne once again, like always, when console hardware gets outdated and games become much more powerful and immersive on the PC. Its tit for tat, console's have greater benefits this time around than they did before, but so does PC. Overall, I can see consoles being in control for another two whole years and never totally giving into PC as much as last time, since competition is so fierce and consoles are becoming more and more simplified PC's. The turning point for PC gaming will be when Intel glu their CPU onto GPU and sell it for a knockdown price, not when 6 billion internet browser laptops are sold.
Wow, I don't even know where to start with this... St. John's logic is so filled with holes, that it is difficult to take anything that he has concluded seriously. While we're out making baseless claims, here's a prediction: Videogames consoles will be replaced by Nuon-enabled DVD players by 2016!
I get the feeling that is exactly what he is predicting...
Brian
www.brianwoods.com
The problem with this prediction is the same problem that has always plagued the PC gaming industry: cost and compatability. For the cost of a PC gaming rig that can match the performance of a 360/PS3, you could buy a 360 and a PS3 and have money left over (I won't even get into the Wii, which would require special peripherals on a PC that not everyone would have). Even once you have that gaming rig, you're still gambling whenever you buy a game as to whether it will actually run well on your computer. There are always compatibility issues with PC games, which aren't nearly as prevalant in console games.
For this guy's prediction to come true, the cost of PCs would have to drop dramatically, and there'd have to be an agreed upon gaming standard. Neither of these things is likely to happen in the time frame he's talking about.
You can build a high end PC that will play Crysis at high settings, and every other PC game out and coming out for about 700USD(not including monitor). That old argument about PC Gaming being too expensive just doesn't hold anymore, and I can't wait for the new marketing campaign from the PCGA on educating the masses, specifically console gamers about PC gaming, which is sorely missing from this whole debate. You also can't compare a PC to a console, that's ridiculous. A PC does much more to justify any additional cost. In most cases, many people have PC's, and adding the ability to game on that system is fairly cheap, and done usually by just adding a GPU. Crysis killing GPU's are now well under $200 USD, not 500 and 600 anymore, although you can still spend that kind of cash, it's not necessary anymore. Check out the new ATI 4850 and 4870, not to mention the Nvidia 9800GTX, and 260.
dozer you can build a Crysis-killing Desktop PC for a bit less than 700. That's good and fine. But that's not the issue here. The issue is Crysis-killing laptops. To be able to build such a laptop and it be of any type of quality and future resistant (think that $700 dollar PC will run Crysis 2 flawlessly?) would set you back over a grand. The old "PC Gaming" argument is in fact a valid argument. Just the cost of upgrading alone could double your total cost in order to be able to play the newest games that were NOT crafted specifically for your machine. Whereas both Gears of War and Gears of War 2 will run perfectly on the same $300 Xbox 360.
Of course laptops will be more than that and far less upgradeable.
yes, the cheap 400 dollar gaming laptop is a ways off, I'm not arguing with you there. Laptop components need better and cheaper manufacturing processes, which is why there is such a price differential. PC Gaming is on a trend that's getting cheaper every year, that's an absolute fact. Just look at the performance of the new ATI 4850/4870, sub $200! and will crush the 8800 line of GPU's that were 400 and 500 dollars 2 years ago, and far outperform the 360/PS3 at this point. Intel and AMD are on similar paths, get smaller, cooler, and cheaper. There's no question it's money, all gaming I would argue is expensive, but I would argue building or buying a gaming PC is a far better investment, or simply adding gaming to an existing PC is cheaper then buying a console, and in many cases, as far as desktops are concerned and some laptops. People just aren't aware of it, which is PC Gaming's largest barrier(plus integrated graphics, which is even worse). Right now, I have a laptop that cost about $1500 which includes an upgraded processor, can play Crysis on High settings at a very playable framrate, and Crysis Warhead coming out this fall will run even better on older hardware, something Crytek needs to be commended for. An 8600 will run Crysis Warhead on high settings, which is incredible. People need to do more then game though, so the PC offers other functions that consoles limit, and this will become more apparent in the future as we get more dependent on PC's. That same laptop also runs my business and does a whole crop of other things, making it a far better investment than a $400 console plus peripherals and more expensive games, that's also stuck at home. Getting back, when that laptop reaches sub $500 prices, which it's heading, it will be a huge upswing on the PC side again, as if it already isn't right now. As of right now, there are already a ton more people playing on PC then console, it's not even a comparison, and it's not just solitaire.
My prediction in 10 years, consoles and PCs will be synonymous (heck, I predict that in 5). In 5 years, XBox 360, PS3 and Wii will on the phase out and will have used up their life cycle ... these companies will be probably making deals with the larger computer manufacturers to survive and integrate into one platform (they already use most of the same components so it stands to reason). Apple and Nintendo are the two standout (read: stranger-than-normal) user-base that will continue to buy on brand name alone.
PC is dead. Consoles are dead. Long-live the Personal Consoles.
agreed
Interesting thoughts, don't know if that's the way it's going to go down, or in that short of time, but it would be nice for a single console platform, though I think corporate greed & conflicts may stand in the the way on that one.
I guess we shall see!
Advertising $$$s is the future.
Oh yes, greed is a major factor; thankfully, with the one "machine" (Personal Console) you get access to both markets without duplicating software production costs over multiple platforms and attain a whole new integrated market (player and user) access-level. You have more potential revenue and lower production costs (it's a win-win, up and down the P/L or Income Statement).
With television networks supporting web-based programming non-stop now, I could also foresee the "TV" and "Monitor" being an integrated element as well of the same system. Heck, if you are reading this website/magazine, you probably already foresee this and its already pretty much taking place right now.
Smoke another one buddy. In reality gaming consoles are growing and not just the recent released console, the legacy consoles are out there and are being played on by the youth of the world. Consoles will be here for awhile with continued positive growth. However I think the next "next gen" will need to address a few major issues, specifically in the hardware realm in regards to power consumption, cooling, production costs and storage capacity, all which the three big players are running into problems with.
Wow!! Another opinion from the peanut gallery who know absolutely nothing about Video games!! I mean Laptop's!?!? Gimme a break buddy!! Do us a favor an choke on that cigar or at the very least keep your big fat mouth shut!! What a Chump! Let's Face it! There is way too much money to be made in the "Console" gaming industry for everything to be consolidated into one single console, let alone a laptop! Now Smoke and Sssshhhhhhhhh!!
Some of you people are out to lunch. Now, I don't think St. John is 100% right, but there's something to say about the current crop of consoles. Whoever thinks kids are going to run out in the next few years and rebuy all new consoles in the same numbers is flat out just wrong.
I think NIntendo's is on their own course right now, with their control gimmick and a very loyal Nintendo fanbase that wants certain games, but Nintendo is losing these people, abandoning them. Still, I don't think Ninty is going anywhere soon, and the Wii will be here for another 10 years easily. I would forget about a new console from them, especially being able to sell to nongamers at this point. St. John is right in this respect about the Wii, Wii2 is not going to sell anytime soon, and why would Ninty ever release another console? They don't need to. They certainly don't care about pushing tech, they have their gimmick, they will probably just addon to their existing hardware, like storage space etc...
The 360/PS3 are here to stay, and the chance of another generation of consoles anytime soon is slim to nothing. If looked at in that way, it makes complete sense. Consoles by themselves, excluding the Wii, are small potatoes compared to PC Desktops and Laptops, which sell around 70-100+ million units a quarter. Here that? Yeah, 70 to 100+ million units every quarter. That's insane. The PC is not performing great in retail for gaming software, but it's excelling with online distrobution, much moreso then consoles, in fact, console sales of online games and digital distribution on PC is leaps and bounds ahead of all consoles combined. The PCGA is releasing the Horizons Report at the end of the summer that's going to prove just that, and it's going to spark a debate that needs to be had.
http://pcgamingalliance.blogspot.com/2008/07/data-research-subcommittee-...
With digital distro, MS and Sony are finally over the past years trying to tap into this but it pales in comparison to the PC scene. What IS successful about consoles are the AAA game makers, which is where the money is at, not the console company's themselves. Look at the 360, barely making money just now for the Xbox project, yet developers that make games for 360 are making a killing right now. St. John isn't talking about that success, that's a separate issue and one the 360 deserves credit for right now. The PS3 has sales that are laughable in compared to PC Gaming, laughable, and the same thing can be said about Wii attach rates and sales, they don't come close to PC Gaming revenue, even with Piracy on PC, which is actually quite amazing. When you look at casual gaming, the PC has hundreds of million of gamers, an estimated 200+ million gamers in total between hardcore and casual, something no console can ever compete with.
In the future, as laptops and mobile gpu's get more and more powerful, there's no reason they won't be the future of gaming. This DOESN'T mean consoles are going away, just that PC Gaming and Console gaming are merging. This is happening at a faster pace in the background with new tech, look at the PS3 and 360, they are doing things that have been in the PC gaming/entertainment space for quite sometime, with certain extra features to differentiate themselves of course. When a parent can buy their kid a laptop for 400 bucks that will also act as and educational tool, and be able to game on the big screen with it, it's game over for console manufactures. In fact, look for Sony and MS to come out with their own proprietary laptop as an answer to this, in fact I would bet they're already talking about it. With wireless N and wireless HDMI, all media, including gaming, will be streamed around the household, it's going to revolutionize the way people look at entertainment in a big way.
Ask yourself this people, why would people buy a console when they NEED a PC, and when that PC is cheap enough to game on in comparison to console gaming, why would people buy a limited box that only games? When that time comes, and it's coming soon, that's the point St. John is making and he's right on the money. The problem now with PC Gaming, is that is requires a bit of knowledge, and for the average Joe, it can be quite daunting. When PC's get to a point where one can throw in a disk, install it like current PS3 owners are, and play it on the big screen with a wireless gamepad by pressing one button, that's the future. It'll be as easy as turning on the TV and using the DVR to record a show.
I really can't see how people don't see this coming, the big merge. If anyone follows technology and the strides company's are making, this is all going to be here sooner rather then later. MS and Sony aren't in the business to release consoles at a loss for years and years, just so developers can make all the money. Looking at what Nintendo did, which is NOT to compete with the PC, is the only successful console gaming company from the get go. MS is a successful software seller, for Windows and selling 360 games, not hardware.
Sorry, but I must disagree to a point. First off, the biased claims being made by St. John (who's business depends solely on the success of the PC platform anyway) is that this generation of consoles, let alone all future generations, will be the last successful generation. The market shows absolutely no signs of supporting that viewpoint in any way. And what you're trying to say neither defends or contrasts that viewpoint. Maybe decades down the road we may have a single box for our digital needs, but I must say that will not happen anytime soon!
Secondly, a $400 dollar laptop now, and for the foreseeable future, is barely good enough to run Freecell. Well maybe Solitaire (and, quite suspiciously, the mini Wild Tangent games). Of course I'm exaggerating a little bit, but you know as well as I that such a machine can't possibly run a game requiring separate cores for AI, compelling sound, and other separate processes, high end 3D processors to create rich and exciting game worlds in high definition/resolutions, advanced control schemes, and of course the HDD space and memory to hold it all! The Xbox 360 and Nintendo Wii certainly has it beat, respectively, in most of those areas, and Wow: they're both cheaper than $400!
Like I said, Mom will much sooner buy a Wii (or Wii 2, etc.) for little Johnny for hassle-free digital entertainment, than a laptop which raises issues for going online to bad sites and catching viruses and whatnot. Not to mention the fear that little Johnny might inadvertently delete one of the hives of the registry, etc. An almost decent gaming-class laptop will cost over $1000, and a machine worth having that would even be somewhat future resistant would set you back $2000-$5000. And you still have to worry about system requirements, driver updates, installation, etc. And still your framerate is being eaten up because Norton Antivirus is running in the background...
Don't you see? PC gaming, as a platform, still has a long way to go to be able to swiftly shut down console gaming. Maybe in the distant future it may have a chance, but NO TIME SOON. Separate home consoles are here to stay. They're the new TV. And if you don't think MS Nintendo and Sony are working on the next generation of consoles as you read this, you don't have a clue. The gaming industry is bigger than the Film industry. That's saying something! And it didn't get to this place by playing Wild Tangent games. Consoles eat up the loin's share of the figures and bring in the bread. Nothing will upset that lucrative formula anytime soon, not when there's gold in them 360's!
First off, I'm talking in the future, especially when I say the "400 dollar" laptop, which is of course something that I was giving as an example in the future. I think you misinterpreted what I was trying to say. I'm talking not tomorrow, but not 20 years from now either. Depending on how technology progresses, and this is all tentative, it's going to happen sooner rather then later in my opinion. Kids are already using PC's much more then consoles on a daily basis, especially younger children. PC's are much better investments for kids , and this generation of parents get that, unlike ours. PC's sell about 80 to 100+units every 3 months in the world, so we have an entire generation growing up MUCH more computer literate then the current crop of teens/20's playing console games only living in the NPD bubble of the US/Japan.
I've also said I don't think St. John is all correct, In fact I have many disagreements, but I know what he's talking of, though I would have to disagree in his prediction of how quickly things will happen. As PC technology gets cheaper(proven trend), more kids use a PC then a console at very large margins (proven trend), OS's advance forward with not only security but user friendliness (proven trend), I think we can at least entertain the idea that the PC and Console platforms are merging to one. If you were a PC gamer in the 90's, you were doing what the current consoles are doing now concerning multiplayer. Consoles are so similar to PC's it's ridiculous, and with next gen I won't not be surprised to see MS team up with Dell to make their next console(given hardware troubles), which will be a desktop/laptop box with proprietary software on it to run games, and act as a PC at the same time through encryption, on separate partitions. Just don't be surprised.
Of course MS. Sony, and Ninty are planning for the future, and they are planning on making boxes that are even more PC like. That's my feelings on the subject, although they are different from what St. John is saying, I felt they are relevant to the discussion. Just my two cents.
Also, if you want to talk money, no other platform pulls in as much money as the PC platform, nothing. Worldwide, the PC pulls in gaming revenue from so many different avenues, it's just not what you might particularly like or approve of. I certainly wouldn't underestimate the PC as a platform. Even with great 360 sales in the US, that surely doesn't compare to most of Asia which is a PC based continent with microtransaction based MMO's, which make Billions on their own. When the Horizon's report comes out later this summer, and Edge reports on it, many people are going to rethink their preconceptions about the platform. To put this into perspective, the PC pulls in more money then all consoles combined worldwide. That's pretty impressive. What's not coming in is retail US brick and mortar, which is dying off in the PC realm with the exploding growth of online distribution. Old school thought would look at the NPD and say, the PC is screwed, but that couldn't be further from the truth. The platform is changing, certainly, but I believe it's for the better. Consoles are changing too, and for the better. They attract PC Gamers like myself with their impressive abilities and decent hardware, something that couldn't be said last generation.
I'm not sure about this... Microsoft and Sony might make a loss on their consoles, but that's the way the business model (which Nintendo pioneered) works. They make their money on licensing on software sales.
As for why people would buy a console when they need a PC, well, they do. You can pick up PCs nowadays which'll run reasonably decent games for not much more than a PS3; but a PC is a horrid, clunky business tool. I don't really see that PCs and consoles are merging, rather that consoles are increasingly taking on more of the things that PCs do. That doesn't mean that they'll eventually blur into one; my mobile 'phone can play games, call people, browse the Internet, listen to music and more, yet I still have a separate handheld games console, landline phone, PC, iPod, etc. (I know there's a few flaws in that argument, but you see the point? :) ).
The business model of Sony and MS is one that is NOT beneficial to gamers, and will and should change in the future. Forcing gamers to buy THEIR hardware to play the games that the gamers care about is archaic, not to mention the ridiculous prices of the console peripherals console gamers are forced to deal with. Gamers need to demand an open platform where ALL games can be played on one platform, and not be forced into one platform for greedy interests. The PC has proven that we can do this in an open fashion, usability is the only real issue at this point for many people, specifically the console gamer him/herself.
The system is breaking down from the PS2 generation, we are already seeing an erosion in the third party market, and the number of first party titles that are worth a salt are far and few between, sans Ninty of course, but after this E3, you have to wonder..... Third party is breaking down because these software companies WANT to reach as many people as possible. Why should software devs have to develop for 4, 5, or 6 platforms? That's ridiculous. There shouldn't be more then 2 platforms, portable and home(static). Third party devs are the majority of the industry and they are the ones that are going to push for a one console(pc) future. The only reason we see first parties is through money, large sums of money to purchase companies, then extort the end user to purchase their hardware along with it. Example...want Halo ? That's gonna cost ya 600 to 800 dollars for proprietary MS hardware, plus an HDTV to take advantage of the technology at hand. In the future, Bungie will make Halo for home and portable use, period. Two platforms that will run on everyone's machine at home, or portable device they have(obviously if they choose to make a portable version for Halo). Bungie, if independent, will reap the benefits of having the entire world on one open source system. You wanna talk about sales? Again, this won't happen until PC technology advances and gets cheaper then what console companies can sell their console for at a loss. The future console companies? Dell, HP, Acer, etc...etc... all building the same spec'd machine.
Sony and MS know the PC space is a threat to their business, and it's why they spend millions and millions of dollars on advertising, and to tell you and everyone else how bad PC Gaming is and how it's dying every year. Viral marketing is everywhere, and if we know anything, the PC as a platform is always under fire, even with the legit problems the platform faces. Every industry does it to their competitors, not only between themselves, but to perceived threats, it's all marketing all the time.
I understand your point about having multiple devices, but while I have a DS, and a PSP, their uses are separate from my gaming laptop, and my cellular phone at the moment, which really has to do with what application I want to use, which then correlates to the screen size that fits best, so yeah, there will always be needs for different devices
With console and PC gaming, we can still have all the same and franchises and games on both platforms, but with the ability to stream it anywhere in the house. Look up Wireless HDMI spec and N spec router technology to see just how amazing and bright the future looks in that regard. Both of these forms of gaming, console and PC, are similar in nature that they will merge with the advent of technology. Consoles are more or less PC's, just proprietary closed PC's with limited functionality for ease of use.
In my opinion, most gamers really don't care what hardware they need, it's all about the convenience (console gaming), availability/customization/power (PC), all in one without thinking about it , as long as the games follow suit. PC owners DO buy consoles because there are certain games best played on console with the TV(check) and convenience (check), and the ability to use a gamepad (check). PC Gamers can still care about hardware and customization for what they want to do, use the peripherals they want to use, or a monitor or TV as a display, it all depends on the actual game itself., and that's it. When all of these come together, consoles as we know it will get replaced by extreme user friendly PC's, most likely a laptop or Media Center PC that will run everything in a modern day house.
Also,
On the mobile front, look to the iphone to replace potential PSP/DS customers in the future, as that is certainly emerging as a new gaming platform in the years to come, and not in just a small way. Sony and Ninty will have smartphones just like the iphone, heck, Ninty is already showing off what the DS can do in airports right now in Japan, soon NA . I think portable devices will vary though, their purpose is different and very separate from PC/Console gaming, a whole different beast.
I have to disagree when you say "but a PC is a horrid, clunky business tool". With the advent of the better more efficient hardware (sub 45nm processors that run super cool and super fast), the advancement of Operating systems over the years, specifically what MS is working on called Windows 7, all making it easier to have slick, smaller, more powerful laptops, not to mention miniATX and how that's evolving the desktop space, I would hardly call it clunky, unless you have a distaste for technology. The way I see it, when Open Source, specifically Linux, reaches a point of user friendliness to the masses without the hassles of proprietary boundaries, this is when we will see a major shift on the PC side of things.
So, it's not ok for Sony or MS to have a closed platform but its ok for Apple to have one with iPhone? Got it :)
I get it, you are a PC user and a fan of open source. Great! That does not change the fact that the modern PC is still a wart riddled beast of a platform. At least Windows platforms are. Mac/OS X is a huge leap in the right direction and Linux is for tinkerers. Nothing wrong with all of these platforms and I operate all of them in my own home. Does not change the fact that console gaming is far more elegant, across the board.
I don't think any proprietary platforms should be supported, they should all be open and move into the 21st century. Like DVD Players, games will one day run on a standard evolving spec, not sure why that's such a far fetched concept. The consoles as of right now are PC's, just locked down so Joe six pack doesn't screw something up. Don't worry though, I get it too, you find PC gaming abhorrent, since users have to so some tinkering, which I believe is good for people, to learn the things they play with , and not just sit there with drool coming out of their mouth. Since when did it become a bad thing to enjoy and encourage people to enjoy technology? Meh, you sound a bit bitter to be honest. OSX is far from a step in the right direction, it's a step back, over priced, not to mention you have to use subpar MAC hardware only to run that OS in the first place,very similar to what console manufactures do to their customers. But, I guess you have to respect a cult when you see one, which is exactly what Apple is :)
So, my last comment here. I, in no way, find PC gaming "abhorrent" as I am a PC gamer as well. As for the stupid "Mac users are in a cult" argument, the same can be said about PC overclockers. I have probably modded more PC's, and jammed more MicroATX mobos into more "wacky" cases than most have ever owned and, after years of dealing with bad specs, unsolvable hardware hangs, blue screens, etc. the move to OS X was a blessing. Everything just works. It is massive leap forward in usability that Windows and Linux just have not achieved. That does not mean it's good for everything, it is just a superior experience as a desktop PC.
And guess what, the world is full of more Joe Six Packs than geeks like you and I. The "hardcore" is the extreme minority and me, you and Alex St. John are squarely in it.
The discussion of the "one spec" has been around since Microsoft put together the Multimedia Compliance spec in the early 1990s and guess what, still no single spec. The PC market is a mishmash of half baked specs, loosely defined rules and non-standard compliance.
As for the checks you put in place for consoles looking more like PC's (in your other response to me), that's what happens when you get a PC software company building a freaking game console. RROD came from Microsoft's lack of quality control in building products. It's the same problem with EVERYTHING that company makes. And don't try to point at "facts", I have enough friends at MS Xbox group to get all the facts I need thanks :) As for the PS3 bricking issue,what issue? Less than 1 percent of the PS3 owners had an issue and it was fixed immediately. Let's compare that number to Vista users.....
Again, I am not against PC gaming, I love it. I still enjoy many different PC games today. But the notion of the PC replacing the console in the home is absolutely absurd and until the PC becomes as easy to administer and use as a console, don't expect it to. Last time I checked, I never defragged my XBox or PS3 drives nor have I had to install anti-virus software....oh, and not on my Mac either :)
On the Mac side of things, as you can attest too, there is basically zero customization in comparison to the PC realm, so it's a completely different experience. I would hardly call Mac's "superior", but if that's your opinion, please see above "cult" reference to see what I was talking about( cue sense of humor)... I myself would much rather have various different vendors to choose from to build a machine, and NOT have to settle for one company's hardware...like with Apple. You're basically trading customization and performance for Apple branding, which I see very little benefit in, especially with gaming, which I what we are all talking about here. People have different experiences with PC's, my overall experience though out life has been a great one. Yes, there are always issues that come up, but I've been lucky enough to be able to solve 99% of them, and have FUN in doing so. If you're the kind of person that doesn't have the patience for it, or is just plain sick of dealing with technology on that level, well, that's understandable, and I can see why you prefer a MAC or a console over a PC.
Oh, and I never claimed that the console was going to be replaced by a PC, that's St. John, I'm in the camp of them merging into one unit, which I believe we are already seeing signs of. ok, 'nuff said.
Business models surely aren't intended to be beneficial to the consumer? :) The GIllette razor model doesn't exactly do wonders for me, but I still buy the blades...
You make a fair point on exclusive titles, they are beginning to die a death. I wonder whether that might be more to do with a more (at the moment) even market share between the consoles, and the rise of middleware tools for games creation, though?
I really don't think that Sony and Microsoft see the PC as a threat to the console businesses, though. The markets are fairly separate. They aren't the ones that tell us that PC gaming is dying - people put that rumour around for themselves. It's not right, of course: it isn't dying, but it's most definitely changing and shrinking.
Finally, perhaps it's because I work with PCs day in and day out, but I do find them to be fairly dreadful things. I'm often called upon to train computer illiterate users in how to use applications, and it's at that point that it strikes you how unintuitive PCs (particularly Windows ones) are. Regular users, and I assume it's fair to include you in that group, don't notice it because we've become adjusted to the way that they've evolved. Windows 7 might be interesting if, as some people suggest, it's a fairly radical rethink of the way it presents its interface. But, hey, they said Vista was going to change everything and, erm, that hasn't exactly proved astounding. ;)
Also, ask yourself, do gamers really want to buy 3 consoles just to play all of their games? Absolutely not. How nice would it be to have one platform to play all games? This can be the PC when tech reaches that pinnacle of cost and convenience. Exclusivity is on the way out, third party exclusives are no longer the smart thing to do, reaching as many people as possible is the way of the future, and on one platorm, the PC(or future Console however you want to name it). People can call it crazy and nonsense and whatever else, but it's what gamers want, to play games, not multiple limited boxes laying around the TV. In a decade from now, we're gonna look back and laugh at this whole thing.
Agreed! And we see this all across the consumer landscape. One car manufacture, one brand of TVs, one color of pant.....oh.....right. Seriously, brands are more than just the bits and screws in the box. And when you talk about PC's, which PC? Macs are making a serious dent in the market and show no sign of slowing down. Hmmmm....the PC world in 2010 or 15 looks like a 2 horse race then with Linux trailing a distant third. Don't think there will be exclusives for each of these platforms? Sounds just like the console space of today, right?
Lastly, all of WT's games require Windows of some sort. So, all of their games are exclusively for the WindowsPC. How is that any different than a console exclusive game today?
You can run every single Windows game in Linux if you choose, if not with WINE, then the Cedega project is coming along nicely, read up on it, it's not going to be on TV for the masses though. MAC is now using Intel, and because of that, you can now install Windows on a MAC, dual boot if one chooses too, so there's no need in that regard. You're thinking from a small perspective anyway, the PC isn't just "ONE", it's made by dozens and dozens of different companies. PC Games are just that, PC/MAC/LINUX based. When console enter the arena, they will run on a spec'd PCthat dozens of companies will make, and you will no longer have to have 3 useless boxes laying around your TV. In fact, your PC will replace your set top box as well, and physical media is on the way out, but will always linger around.
No, the future is open source, not proprietary. That means more money to develop games, instead of more money to make games run on numerous different systems. Get it? Cool.
Sorry, you can not run EVERY single Windows game in Linux, even with WINE and Cedega. Been around those techs for many a year now. Yes, as a Windows and OS X user, I understand that I can dual boot. So what? Now I get to administer 2 platforms. Great. As for the PCs that dozens and dozens of companies make, that is EXACTLY the problem with PC gaming. No two systems work the same, even if they use the "same" components. Guess what, every PS3 game runs on ALL PS3's in production. No driver issues, no OS issues, etc. Same for XBox360 and Wii.
Sorry, but I have been around this industry for over 25 years and, as a person who owns multiple desktops, I can truly say that PC in the living room is quite a ways off. Killing the console? Not by 2020.
I have yet to come across a game that I can't run in Linux. Cedega is making huge strides btw, and the community is really maturing. Granted, Linux is still in it's youth and there's obviously a lot to be done in the open source community. Choosing which OS to load upon boot isn't a big deal, lol, not sure why you look at that as a negative. Hey, if you don't like running PC's , don't! I'm not telling you what to do, but realize there's a ton of people that are just the opposite of what you enjoy or prefer. It's give and take with consoles, you get uniform specs that run every game, but you are at the behest of the company's ridiculous $60 price tags, ridiculous overpriced downloadable content, never getting better hardware, lack of mouse and keyboard, lack of certain genres that are playable and enjoyable, etc.. Many people don't care about those, but many people do.
I've been around for quite a while myself too, and if you've been reading in the past few years, I'm surprised you haven't noticed the tremendous strides in PC technology, user friendliness, and a lower price trend for performance. It's not that your(or my) console is getting replaced, it's just turning into a PC, if it isn't already. Patches? Check. Faulty Hardware, RROD? Check. PS3 Firmware bricking consoles? Check. Browsing youtube and running folding at home on the PS3? Check. There's a collision course, and it's exciting the way I see it. I'm just hoping that the future console is an open one.
BTW, you DO know hoe Cedega works, right? Transgaming is not allowed to look at the underpinnings of the DirectX APIs as they are propritary so they view them from a "top down" approach and view the result of the DX output. this is why there are some games that work and some that don't. It's also why MS can't sue them. And yes, I have known Vikas and Gavrial for years and I do know how it works. It's a very educated, tested guess.
As for the OS booting issue, why should I have to choose (lol)? It is a pain in the ass to switch between OSs on a single machine and I can boot any of my consoles faster than any of my desktops which is important in the family room, not so much in the office. As for the $60 games, so what? Downloadable games for as low at $2? That's an issue? I can hook a keyboard and mouse to the PS3 and the Wii (and they both have compliant browsers as well). As for certain genres better on the PC than console, you are EXACTLY correct. but I never stated that consoles would replace PCs now did I?
Lower price trend for performance still turns out to be more expensive than the priciest PS3 package. Even a mid-tier graphics card is as expensive as a Wii. PC's are STILL nowhere as affordable as console gaming, from a hardware perspective.
And, I'm out.
Makes you wonder what's in that cigar.
Wow! What absurdity! With console gaming doing better than it's ever had in history, and PC gaming at embarrassing lows thanks to piracy and whatnot, now is a silly time to be making such claims. Console Gaming is going nowhere, my friend!
Calling this generation of consoles "the last successful generation" shows a real lack of understanding of the industry. This isn't like 15 years ago with Sega, Neo-Geo and Panasonic making consoles. We have three of the biggest companies on the planet making game machines now. This is big, BIG business! Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo all know what they're doing and wouldn't be here if the industry was about to fall through. All three consoles have their shortcomings and everybody including the consumer knows that. You'd better believe that they'll be trying for another shot at bigger and better and total greatness, at the very least through the next generation!
Console gaming is the new television. It's here to stay. Who in their right mind would pay for a $5000 gaming laptop which will need constant updates in order to efficiently play games designed and dumbed down for all types of configurations, when they can just pay a few hundred bucks and get a ready-made system that will easily play the software that was specifically made for it? I'll admit I love a good gaming PC as much as the next mad genius out for world domination. But PC gaming is, always has been, and will continue to be an expensive hobby! Moms wanting to appease their kids will much sooner buy a $250 Wii over a gaming laptop.
Sorry, pal. Keep those wishful pipe dreams to your self. You're not steering the industry with such comments. Rather making yourself look foolish.
I've never heard so much nonsense in all my life! PC gaming just now is on it's knees and consoles will only evolve as sales are healthy.
St. John should just keep on smoking that cigar!
I really don't see that happening. I know loads of people who have laptops but still prefer to play on consoles. I remember about fifteen or so years ago people were claiming that handhelds would make home consoles extinct, but that never happened.
Does Mr. St. John see laptops changing hugely over the next few years? If not, I don't see how they can even begin to compete with consoles as home games machines. Let's face it, a laptop is just a PC in a neater case with, generally, a slower hard-drive. Yes, there are laptops that are as powerful as desktop PCs, but for the most part these run very hot and need to be plugged into the mains most of the time. The PC games market seems to be fairly stagant to me at the moment, anyhow; that would have to pick up for laptops to become the dominant market force.
Well, the PC retail market is pretty stagnant right now. Not a lot going on there. But the digital distribution/flash/MMO market is on fire and making more money than they can shake a stick at.
Personally, I don't see consoles dying any time soon. This just seems to be the opposite of the "PC is dying" outcry. There is plenty of room for both markets and there will always be. We may see big changes in the future, but for now, the market will remain relatively unchanged.
Sorry, yes, you make a good point there. I can see the argument for digital distribution and MMO subscriptions, but do Flash games really make that much money?
Absolutely. There are so many people playing flash games and mini games on the web, it's ridiculous. As online advertising has been maturing, the money has been growing and growing. Tracking all of this and putting it into a monthly report like the NPD for consoles is almost impossible though, so end users don't get an actual look or understanding for it.
Fair enough. I guess it's difficult to correlate the playing of the games with the advertising revenue!